Ep#3: Climbing Everest and following the beat of your own drum with Philip Henderson

In this episode of The Discomfort Zone podcast, Philip Henderson, the leader of the first all African American Everest expedition, and pioneer in promoting outdoor activities for underrepresented communities, shares his insights on embracing discomfort and overcoming fear and anxiety.

We talk about the importance of making choices based on personal growth and happiness, rather than seeking validation from others, and how he has navigated that in his own life.

Philip shares his wisdom on how to confidently show up as yourself in the outdoors at any and all skill level for joy and growth. 

Topics:

  • How to embrace discomfort and separate it from fear and anxiety to move forward in life.
  • Learn from mistakes, because they shape who you are.
  • How to not let the judgment of others dictate your decisions.
  • How he encourages underrepresented communities to engage in outdoor activities and create a more inclusive outdoor community.
  • Why connectivity can leave a positive impact and build equity and inclusiveness in the outdoors. 

Anna
Mountains have provided Philip Henderson with opportunities to travel, climb, and ski around the world. Throughout his career, he has spent countless hours volunteering for youth and adult programs in the US, exposing them to the power of nature. His work assisting people from the black, brown, and other underrepresented communities getting exposed to outdoor activities is highly celebrated, labeling him a true pioneer in his community.

He has been instrumental in training high altitude workers in Nepal, Kenya, and Tanzania, and has been a mentor to many men and women working in the outdoor community. Throughout his career, he’s worked as a NOLS instructor from 1994 to 2016. He was a member of the 2012 North Face National Geographic Everest Education Expedition. He’s climbed Denali three times.

He’s led the first all African-American climb of Mount Kilimanjaro. He was a member and expedition leader of the Full Circle Everest Expedition of 2022, the first all-black team in history to summit Mount Everest. He’s executive director of Full Circle Expeditions, a Colorado nonprofit. Thanks for being here, Philip. I really appreciate it. I’m excited to talk with you.

Philip Henderson
Awesome, thanks for having me.

Anna
Yeah, my first question is what does your discomfort zone feel like?

Philip Henderson
Oh, wow. My comfort, my discomfort zone, what is it? It’s uncomfortable. You know what I mean? No, but honestly, you know how it kind of represents itself to me really is, I mean, I think of it as kind of anxiety in a sense. That’s where discomfort, that’s what discomfort feels like for me, yeah, what other people would think of anxiety. And I think I actually suffer from anxiety as well, but yeah.

Anna
Mm.

Anna
Yeah, is there a particular place in your body that you feel that arising that you’re like, oh, I’m starting to feel that anxiety come on?

Philip Henderson
Yeah, usually it’s my hands. You know? It’s, uh, it’s, it’s a, you know, sweaty hands in a sense. And when I start feeling that, and that could be from a variety of different things, you know, but that’s when I noticed my uncomfortability. It’s always been that way.

Anna
Mm-hmm. And what’s your strategy when you feel those sweaty hands happening? What’s your strategy?

Philip Henderson
Well, it’s, yeah, well, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with separating, you have to, you know, separating discomfort from fear, from anxiety, and kind of understanding what all of those, that’s what I try to do. Because, I mean, it’s always going to be there, right? But where, like, where is it coming from and how do you get through it is really, you have to separate it in order to kind of move forward in a sense.

Anna
Hmm. And how do you, do you have like a specific thing that you focus on to help separate that out for yourself? Or is it a focus?

Philip Henderson
You know, so much of it is situational. And yeah, it is a focus too, but I mean, I know you and I, we can speak white water, so that’s a good analogy to use. But you know, I mean, think about it, right? If you’re on a river, you know, you’re scouting a rapid, you’re in this river quarter, there’s no going back. You can’t just, I mean, you can in the sense, you can just walk out.

Anna
Mm.

Philip Henderson (04:00.778)
But so what is that? Is that fear? Is that anxiety? Is it discomfort? What is it, right? And you have to work through all of that. And that’s just for me a good analogy in that because there’s been numerous times of being in that situation where that, yeah, you work through it. Where on, you know, another kind of situation I would use would be flying, right?

I’m very, I’ve gotten over my discomfort of flying because sometimes it’s the only way you can go anywhere. And so what is that? It’s like, what is, is it fear? Is it anxiety? Is it discomfort? And how do I get through it? Well, you know, it kind of comes and goes if you’re on a long flight, right? So you just, you make the best of it. But honestly, it’s a lot of times it’s the, It’s a fear of dying, you know. You’re in a plane, it’s like this plane could go down. Like, well, I don’t have control of that. That is completely out of my control. The only thing I have control of is to either get on the plane or not. Once I get on, I’m not thinking, I can’t worry about it because I’ve already made the choice. So.

Anna
Hmm.

Philip Henderson
That’s kind of, I mean, it’s kind of, yeah, it’s almost like what’s the reality in a sense. Yeah.

Anna
I love what you’re saying. And what’s your choice to remind yourself in that moment? I use that often as a strategy for myself when I feel uncomfortable on a river or I’m above a rapid and I’m nervous. And the question is, why do I do this to myself? It’s like, well, you chose to be here. You chose to like, you actually had to walk your kayak down to the put in and get in. And so owning that choice of, okay, I’m choosing to put myself in this discomfort. And I’m doing that because I know at the end of the rapid or at the end of the day, it feels really good. And so there’s a desire there to want to work through the discomfort.

Philip Henderson
Right, yeah. And you continue to put yourself in those situations, right? Which again, you tell yourself, right? It’s like, how many times have you said, oh, I’ll never do this again. You know, why do I keep doing this? And then you find yourself back in that situation where you have to be getting something out of it, either some type of enjoyment or growth or something, right? And I’ve all, I’ve I tried not to let pressure change that reality for me. Right, like, no, I’m gonna make my decisions and live with that. And that’s what I try to teach other people as well in terms of when you make decisions, like it’s you that have to live with it. Nobody else has to live with the decisions that you make in your life. And so, although people will judge you by those decisions.You know, a lot of different things that go on, but when it all said and done, it’s like, it’s you that, that live with that. And when it comes to decisions in the outdoors, you know, I know that things happen. And you can carry that on through life as well, but in the outdoors, you know, whether you’re boating or skiing, climbing, whatever, it’s like things happen. And the decisions you make are involved in that. And you know, what happens are involved in the decisions that you or your team or whoever make. And so, yeah, you have to be willing to live with them. And when you live through them, then you’re willing to make those decisions again and again, you know, and to go or to put yourself in that situation. And it might be another decision you have to make, but we, we continue to go back to it. Um, whether it’s because it’s our profession or because it’s, you know, we’re doing it for recreation or if it’s life, you know, um, I go back to that. You know, I’ll say there are things that I can think of that I’ve done in just life, you know, and you learn from your mistakes. I mean, it’s not even outdoor things. It’s just using a chainsaw or something, who knows, you know.

Yeah, I appreciate the context of asking yourself, okay, I’m choosing this. Can I, and I’m gonna have to live with my choice. And so what action do I wanna take from here? And as you mentioned, you’ve been on teams doing really high risk and high stress in high risk and high stress environments like Everest. And that is a powerful context to work from.

And then at the same time, once you make a choice, there’s no going back. And so, do you ever, have you ever regretted choices? And if you have, how do you talk to yourself about that, to be able to move forward?

Yeah. In all honesty, I have no regrets and choices that I’ve made in my life. Now, there are consequences that come with some of those choices that I’ve learned from, but I wouldn’t change them because without all of that, I’m not the person I am now and I really look at it that way. And
I’ve been fortunate to live through a lot of, to just live, right? To be here, sitting here standing with you. So I’ve lived through some things to be able to talk about those things. Um, you know, some people don’t have that ability. They, they don’t live to tell about it or, um, yeah, they’re, they’re talking about it, but they’re locked behind bars, you know? There’s a lot of different things. So.

Anna (10:33.47)
Hmm.

Philip Henderson (10:38.114)
I don’t regret choices. I take them as learning experiences and I know it’s like, yeah, cliche, right? But I do. And I wouldn’t change any of them because I wouldn’t have learned from those things. And then, so for me, they’ve all, it’s all of those things combined that have allowed me to be who I am now. Yeah, and to continue making choices based on those things. Right? So, if you change them, then you change who you are. I mean, you can only do that in hindsight. So.

Anna
Hmm.

Anna
Yeah, all of the experiences that we’ve lived make us who we are. And there’s just like the river waves, ups and downs, swirly, boily water, smooth water. And I think that what I hear you saying is that you have a gratitude for all of it and a gratitude for being here to tell the story and inspire others.

Philip Henderson
Yeah, you know, and again, I think not all of those, I’m not saying I’m perfect, right? But all of those experiences have taught, every thing in my life has taught me something. And I think that the biggest thing that it’s taught me is to keep looking for other experiences to have, to keep growing because that’s what happens. You know?

And I honestly believe that. And I look at every step of life in making decisions. And there’s never been one when I was like, man, that was just bad. Everything is, yeah, again, learned some things and had to go through some difficult times. But yeah, I wouldn’t.

Anna
Mm.

Anna
Yeah.

Philip Henderson
I wouldn’t change it.

Anna
When you mentioned earlier that other people will judge you for the choices that you make sometimes, have you felt judged throughout your career? And if so, how do you look at whether, we’ll call them haters or doubters. I don’t know if you’ve experienced that at all throughout your career, but how do you handle that when you come up against that?

Philip Henderson
Mm-hmm.

You know, again, those will always be there. And knowing that no one can walk in my shoes, people, they can hate, they can doubt, they can do what they want, say, judge, whatever. I’ve always walked to the beat of my own drum. And again, that’s what, you know, and I do it, I have beat that drum because it’s my drum to beat right. And again, those are lessons that I’ve learned in my life in that people will try and beat your own, do your drum for you and tell you what drums you can play. But if you don’t buy into that, then you’re creating your own life and it’s easier to live with those circumstances right now, again there are certain things that come with society and life that they’re outside of your control right? But I think that’s the irony about it is I don’t want to be, I’m trying not to allow myself to be controlled by again doubters, peer pressure, those people who say that you shouldn’t, couldn’t do blah blah, whatever it may be, right? Or that you’re not capable of anything, whatever it is.

Anna
Mm-hmm.

Philip Henderson
And I’m like, okay, you can have your thoughts, but this is how I roll. And this is what I’m gonna do with my life. And I would have never reached that point without some of those other experiences to ponder on, right? So that’s what, again, what I mean by not having those regrets of you know, actions and reactions, those things. No, and you know, a big part of it, and I’ll give you an example, you know, our Everest expedition was big, it was historical, and there were a lot of haters in this day and age with social media and things like that. You could see it, it’s right at your fingertips, but I consciously out of hundreds of doubters and haters that were out there. I have team members, I would say, oh, did you read this email? Like, is it negative? Oh yeah, you should read, no. I don’t even pay attention to it. I don’t even spend the energy on it. Cause I can’t change it. And it’s not doing any, it’s not motivating me in any way. So why even pay attention to it? So if people could just do that instead of you know, at least for me, it helped because then you don’t have a battle of you know, your own strategies and, you know, your own decisions based on the people you’re not like, no, you live with your decisions and that.

Anna
Yeah, I love that. That’s powerful. Expend your energy on beating your own drum, so to speak, as you said, and not on what other folks are. Because they’re beating their drum. That’s their business. Right? That’s what I heard. And yeah, that’s inspiring.

Philip Henderson (16:46.898)
Yeah, yeah. And that’s, you know, I think if, it’s hard to do, right? It’s hard because we, you know, there is peer pressure and, you know, there’s community pressure, there’s family pressure, there’s all of, wherever that fits, there’s always pressure to be locked in somewhere, like what you should, how you can do things and where you should go and that could be as a man, as a woman, as a person of color, whatever it is. It’s like we all have these things that we’re told throughout our lives that kind of keep us from going in a direction or making decisions based on what we think and who we are.

Anna
How did you develop the self-determination? That’s what I’m hearing is a lot of self-determination from you. How did you develop that? Was there a strategy that you learned? Did you have a mentor when you were younger to help you develop that self-determination? I’m going to roll to the beat of my own drum.

Philip Henderson
No, you have to find it out the hard way. It wasn’t always like that, right? I mean, that’s a process of working through, you know, at least for me, it has been with the life that I’ve lived. It’s like, no, it had to be a process. And because I think because of the path, in a sense, that’s in a sense unique in its way over these, I’m 60 years old now, so over those years and that it would be hard to find a, it’s hard to have a mentor, you know what I mean? In that because a lot of the things that I’ve gone through were uncharted water, put it that way, yeah.

Anna
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Philip Henderson
And so, and I think just by the nature of society and you know, when I was born where I live all these different things and that a lot of it is just trial and error. It’s like, it’s the tribulations of life, the school of hard knocks of dealing with, but not going to someone and saying, will you be my mentor? Can you help me through these things? And like, no.

And I think that’s one of my drives to actually be there for other people in that sense, because when you don’t have that and you know that you have something to offer in that sense that can help a person shape their own life, not shape it for them, but help them shape it themselves by thinking of like not reinventing the wheel, right? Having people think about things before they even get there.

sometimes, right? Not putting them in a place that they will never get hope, you know, but like, no, this is a society that we live in. You are gonna face these things. You may face these things at some point in your life. And had I had some of those things, maybe life would be different, but I wouldn’t. Again, I can’t change them, so I wouldn’t change them. Yeah.

Anna
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. When you’re mentoring folks, what is a piece of advice that you tend to give often over and over that makes a difference?

Philip Henderson
I mean, there’s several, but I think the biggest takeaway really is you be you. Right? And, and again, that’s a hard thing because of all the do’s and don’ts that are thrown at us throughout our lives and how people want to place you in a box of, based on, again, your size, your color, your gender, all of these things.

So that would be one is you be you and expose yourself to whatever it is that you might wanna be exposed to. If you wanna try something, try it. You know, because you never know what you’ll lock on to. You’ll never know what you will connect with that will help shape your life in that way. But so many times we don’t take opportunities based on, again what society says. So that’s the biggest takeaway that I want people to kind of go away with and to kind of move every day is like, yeah, you be you and make your decisions based on what makes you happy, right? Where, you know, what do you see? Stop and smell the flowers. Just because everybody else is continuing to walk doesn’t mean you can’t stop.

Anna
Right.

Philip Henderson
And when it’s all said and done, you’ll not sure the word I’m looking for, but you’ll, um, when you get older, you’ll appreciate that, that you were, that you did things the way that you wanted to do them. And that’s having a voice sometimes as well, right? Like not being afraid to say, no, this is to go against the grain.

Anna
When we were on a panel together at the Outdoors for All conference in 2022, and something that really struck me was at one point you were speaking, and this speaks to putting yourself into your discomfort zone over and over and persisting.

What I heard you say and I’m paraphrasing or what stuck with me was you were speaking to the black and brown folks in the audience, underserved folks, and you said something to the effect of I recommend that you stay in it, stay in the outdoor industry, persist, because it makes a difference, essentially. It makes a difference, representation makes a difference.

Do you remember saying that? Is that something that you advise folks of color when they’re entering the outdoor industry or they’re in the outdoor industry and maybe they come up against some of these, you know, what other judgments or what other people think or how people view what should and shouldn’t happen, blah, blah?

Philip Henderson
Yeah, yeah, no, I remember saying that and yeah, I still feel that way. Um, and the reason, the biggest reason why I say that is this, if you get something out of it, why, why not continue to benefit in the way that you’re benefiting? There are always going to be things in, in life that, that you have to deal with that are struggles, right? But we keep doing them. Um, this is just one more of those things.

one other aspect of life or one other industry or whatever that it’s like that’s always going to be there but if you’re gaining something from it why not do it? Why? You know, take away something, like personally take away something from yourself that you enjoy. Like you can enjoy it without that. And the other part of that too is that I believe that when we spend, when different people spend time together and in an environment that is natural to people. So people spending time together in an environment that’s natural to us, not at work, not in, you know. We are all there for a reason to enjoy it, to connect, to exercise, whatever, but it’s the natural place for us to be. And, I think that allows a lot of those stereotypes and walls and things to kind of not exist. And for people to just exist amongst people and nature. And when we do that, I think we create space in the world that just makes a better place for people and the environment itself. So without all of those folks, it doesn’t work.

Anna
Yep, powerful.

Anna
Do you have an early memory of stepping into your discomfort zone?

Philip Henderson (26:52.622)
No, not really. Like a specific… Like…instance.

Anna
Yeah, I don’t know if you have an experience that you remember that like brought you confident, you stepped outside of your discomfort zone and it was, you were scared, but then it was like, you know, you grew in confidence and courage.

Philip Henderson
Again, that’s just life for me. And what I mean by just life is that I’ve lived in a lot of, in different places. And so being different has always been one of those places of discomfort. And so what I guess at a certain time, I realized that, well then, if that’s the case and I’m always gonna be who I am then I’m not gonna be uncomfortable anymore. If there’s a discomfort, the discomfort is on your end, not on my end.

Anna
Love that. That is not easy to do. That is such a great practice, a powerful practice in, yeah, that self-determination, that confidence. So thank you for saying that.

Yeah.

What’s the biggest misconception that people have about outdoor adventures, whether it’s climbing, whitewater kayaking, whatever. What’s the biggest misconception you think people have about those activities?

Philip Henderson
You know, it might sound funny coming from me. It doesn’t to me, but to other people it does. And I think that the biggest misconception is that you have to be doing it at a certain level. And I think that keeps a lot of people from engaging in the others. Like, well, where do I begin? Right? You don’t realize you, like, there has to be a place where you begin. And even though you move forward wherever, at any level, you can always still do that at that entrance level and you can start, stop, you can keep going anywhere along that spectrum.

And that’s still, you know, engaging in that activity or whatever it is, right? You don’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be in an extreme. You don’t have to be a professional. You don’t have to have all the, the things that are out there that are made these days to do it. And it’s like, to me, that’s the biggest misconception is you can just go out and do it.

Anna
Yes, it’s true. I, you know, the gear, I mean, kayaking, whitewater kayaking does take a lot of gear and I do believe in the gear, especially lifejack, you know, PFDs, lifejackets, helmets, it’s all very important because it’s part of safety and you don’t have to have the latest and greatest always. And same thing, you know, when I, when I first got into the outdoors, you know, I was with

Philip Henderson
Yeah.

Anna
Folks who really, some gear heads, you know, like if you’re gonna go hiking, you have to have boots and you have to have a pack, this certain pack or, but then it’s like, well, actually I can just go out in my running shoes and you know, even in jeans you can go for a hike, go for an hour hike, you know, hour or two hours, whatever, enjoy, connect with nature. You don’t have to have like the right boots and.

Philip Henderson
Yeah.

Anna
You know, the quote unquote right pack. I think what you’re saying is really, really powerful in that regard.

Philip Henderson
Yeah, yeah. I mean, but I think also something you said that makes me take that even further in that, you know, enjoying nature means that you have to go somewhere. It’s like, no, you can you can just step outside sometime, right? What does what does enjoy does in enjoying nature what does that mean?

Anna
Yeah.

Philip Henderson (
In terms of doing something, does that mean that there’s an activity and gear and those things that need to be involved? No. To me, also gardening is outside enjoying nature, right? So that’s what I mean by this misconception. And when I preface the fact that it would sound funny coming from me, it’s because of that. Like, yes, I’ve been to Everest a couple of times. I’ve climbed five Mountains loaded down big rivers, but I get just as much satisfaction of gardening, you know, growing my own food. I have, so there’s a new, you know, there’s no level in which you should feel like you have to be involved in the outdoors.

Anna
Well said.

Philip, do you have any questions for me?

Philip Henderson
Yeah, actually, you know, one is what the first question is, what prompted you to start your podcast?

Anna
What prompted me is really to inspire folks. I think that it’s so right now, I’ve heard on a lot of different podcasts and in books, it’s important to do hard things. Getting uncomfortable is important for the learning process. And then that’s great. And it’s good advice. It’s good information. And to me the most inspiring is hearing from different people on how they actually maneuver through their discomfort zone. And so I wanted to, I was really excited about having conversations with folks from different backgrounds who enjoy different activities, different aspects of stepping into their discomfort zone and through it to learn, grow.

I love learning, I love connecting with people and hearing folks’ stories. So I was really jazzed about the thought about putting these conversations together and putting them out. And who knows, we’ll see. Right now we’re recording this before the podcast launches and…

My hope is that folks will find them interesting and inspiring. But we’ll find out. I’m in my discomfort zone right now with, you know, putting it together. So, yeah.

Philip Henderson
Right, yeah, yeah. Well, it’s funny, we just talk about the discomfort zone. I don’t talk about this a lot, but even in speaking, that’s always been something that’s very uncomfortable for me. But I do it. I do it all the time. Every time I do it, I know I’m stepping. I am agreeing to be uncomfortable. And that could mean, you know, I, this anticipation for months and then I feel okay, but before I go out and speak publicly in front of anyone, it could be a small group of folks or large group of folks. There’s always a level of discomfort that I have to work through. You know, but the fact that I did it one time before or the time before, you know, but there are some other things that I can kind of do to help with that discomfort, but it’s always to start off with, it’s very uncomfortable because it’s not who I am as a person.

Anna
Hmm. Is climbing Everest more comfortable for you than giving a keynote talk?

Philip Henderson
Um, that’s a hard one. That thing, I think there’s some parallel levels of discomfort and…I think there’s some different levels of anxiety is there as well, you know? And then, you know, one of the things that I’ve learned about, you know, there’s levels of fear, but one of the things that I’ve learned about fear and I’ve heard this in that I mean fear is just what I do to punish myself because no one else is creating that fear but me in my mind what am I afraid of right um and that’s you know that’s it’s true in a sense um no one can take that away but you in how you feel and how you see things in your head. But there are also, you know, subjective things in climbing, again, but they’re out of your control for the most part, right? So then it goes back to confidence and do I have the skills and the experience? So you kind of go back and forth with those things on both sides of that fence, whether it’s speaking or climbing a mountain that allows you to move through that fear, discomfort, anxiety, and it comes and goes. Now speaking, it happens in 20, you know, an hour, two hours, hour and a half, something like that. Everest is two months sometimes. And so day in and day out, you’re moving through that cycle of fear and discomfort and anxiety on a daily basis which is hard if you’re not able to kind of work through that.

Anna
Yeah, when you’re on, when you’re living in that discomfort zone for days, what’s one strategy you use? Is there a breath technique or something like that you use to help yourself?

Philip Henderson
Yeah, it’s some of those things you have to kind of, yeah, take time to breathe and meditate and to kind of put these things out of your mind because if you don’t, you’ll spend so much energy on asking all of these questions of things that you can’t put out of your mind, that you just, you wear yourself out. And so staying engaged, just like you would in everyday life, playing games, exercising, all those things because it takes your mind off of the, you know, objective hazards.

Anna
All right, I’ve got a rapid fire round for us. You ready for rapid fire questions?

Philip Henderson
Cool, all right. All right, let’s see how fast I can move.

Anna
Okay. What’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Philip Henderson
a morning ritual?

Anna
Yes.

Philip Henderson
Oh, turn on the teapot.

Anna
What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice for you?

Philip Henderson
Ooh, non-negotiable. Cutting my fingernails, my toenails.

Anna
Okay. What’s your favorite motivational book or talk?

Philip Henderson
Booker talk, ooh, Stephen Biko, I write what I like.

Anna
I’ll have to check that one out.

What do people get wrong about you?

Philip Henderson
Ooh. What do people get wrong about me? Gosh.

Philip Henderson
everything.

Anna
Okay.

What, okay, over the course of your life, do you, have you felt like the underdog or the favorite to win?

Philip Henderson
Favored to win

Anna
Okay. Hard moves in easy water or flooding.

Philip Henderson
Hard moves in easy water.

Anna
What’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Philip Henderson
Chaos.

Anna (40:51.7)
So you’re comfortable in chaos?

Philip Henderson
Yeah.

Anna
That’s awesome. There’s a few folks I’ve interviewed for this podcast that have said that. I find that it’s fascinating. I love it. Comfort and chaos.

Philip Henderson
Yeah, and it may not, at least at least outwardly.

Philip Henderson
Yeah.

Anna
I know this is rapid fire, but I have one question about that. So do you think that it’s a, like, your comfort zone is problem solving through chaos? Or is it like just the feeling of chaos?

Philip Henderson
It’s a problem solving to chaos. Yeah.

Anna
Okay, freedom through discipline or do what I want.

Philip Henderson
Do what I want.

Anna
Okay. In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Philip Henderson
Do what I want. No. Yeah, yeah, no. It kind of, I mean, it goes right along with like what you were saying, like the question you asked, like what would you, like what words you give to someone? It’s like you be you, like do what I want. It’s the same thing. Yeah.

Anna
That’s three words. Do what I want. Oh, four words. I love it. Okay. It’s good.

Anna
You be you. Yup.

Love it. Is there anything else you want to say to our listeners, Philip?

Philip Henderson
No, not at all. I just want to thank you for taking the time and putting together the podcast and having me on as a guest and disconnecting. And, you know, it’s funny in that I this is the other thing I believe in about the outdoor industry and this is what happens. Right. We are connected through. I’m going to say four people at this point that we probably know. So having connection with those people, having positive connections in those people, then opens the door for building more community. So if you and I go, and I believe that it should,it can, it should, and it does happen in that you and I have a connection. You could be in Timbuktu, if you know where that is, it is actually a place. And someone, you meet someone and if you have a mutual relationship, you’re treating that person based on the mutual, what’s the word I’m looking for, mutuality of your relationship with the other person, right? And so I think that that’s what happens in the outdoor community is that we build a broader community just based on the things that we do, not based on what people look like, where they come from, those things. And so going back to that legacy, it’s like to me, that is a legacy that I really think about building in that equity and inclusiveness in the outdoors, is that it truly is for everybody and it connects everybody if you let it. Yeah.

Anna

Beautiful.

Philip, where can people find you? On social media or website. And let us know if you have any upcoming projects.

Philip Henderson
Yeah, um…

Couple ways you can, so, you know, I’m not so much on social media and it’s funny because it’s hard to, in this day and age, to be successful in business without that. But, you know, we’re kind of going that way. But anyways, Instagram, yes, I think it’s phil.henderson, if I’m not mistaken, on Instagram. But also on the Full Circle Expeditions website. That would be Full Circle Dash Expeditions. And so that’s my nonprofit that I’m running. And we try and keep a newsletter, you know, of current events and so on, on there. And then just email. That’s the easiest way to connect with me is via email, I’m old school. My full name with one L.

Anna
Nice.

Philip Henderson
P-H- at Gmail. So.

Anna
Great, and I’ll put all of those in the show notes.

Philip Henderson
And what’s coming up? Yeah, what am I coming up with? You know, again, I just, I really enjoy supporting other people in there, you know, what they’re trying to do to make a difference in the outdoors. And so that’s what we do with the nonprofit. And that could be from, you know, having a conversation to, you know, teaching a workshop, to providing a scholarship.

And so I know right now when my other teammates, Rosemary, who’s gonna be doing another Kilimanjaro trip here coming up, but I’ve just been helping her with that just on putting a group together for an international expedition. Like she’s had questions about that. And so I can coach through those, some of those things. And then I’ll be going back to Nepal for the 20th anniversary of the Kumbo Climbing Center.

So I’ll be teaching probably 10 or 12 folks some basic climbing skills for the next 15 days or for 15 days in January. So looking forward to going back to Nepal.

Anna
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Philip. And everyone go check out his Instagram, even if he’s not there, reach out to him via email. Visit first full circle expeditions. And is it full circle expeditions or just full circle?

Philip Henderson
Thank you.

Philip Henderson
Yeah, full circle expeditions.

Anna
Yep. So visit, go check him out, check out Philip’s nonprofit. And thank you again so much, Philip. I really appreciate you and everything and who you are in this world. So thank you.

Philip Henderson (47:36.458)
Awesome. Thank you so much again. And yeah, looking forward to connecting mind, body and adventure.