Anna Levesque:
My guest today is Ottawa River local, Canadian national champion, two-time Norwegian champion, and two-time Nordic champion, Tyler Curtis. He has been a major influence in the international freestyle scene and revered throughout the industry for his dedication to instruction, coaching, and youth development. Not only a veteran playboater, Tyler is also one of the best all-around kayakers in the world, winning both extreme races and freestyle events worldwide.

He’s paddled in over 35 countries, claiming astonishing numbers of first descents, expeditions, and waterfalls throughout his career. As one of the most photographed paddlers, Tyler has appeared on the cover of every leading paddle sports magazine and appeared in numerous kayaking films. He is a published author of Fudelafu Whitewater and Whitewater Chili, and now spends a ton of time on the river with his two kids and life partner.

Not to mention his winter gig as an avalanche specialist, with a specialty in forecasting and education in Sweden. Thanks for being here, Tyler. I’m excited to talk with you.

Tyler:
Yeah, I look forward to sharing tales and getting to sit down and talk with you. It’s been a long time.

Anna:
Yeah, I know. It has been a while. So my first question is: when I say “discomfort zone,” what comes up for you? What does that mean to you?

Tyler:
Discomfort zone… yeah. I guess for me it’s uncertainty. Uncertainty can be a fabulous thing, but also a scary thing. The discomfort zone would also mean challenge and personal growth. Through the hard times, we learn who we are as individuals.

Anna:
Mm. Yeah, that’s the truth. Since you mentioned it, is there any tough time—on or off the river or the mountain—that has really led to your personal growth?

Tyler:
Yeah, I’d say there’s maybe not one incident that really jumps out. But I think the lifestyle I’ve chosen—and been passionate about—whitewater kayaking and being in the mountains in the wintertime, has helped me evolve and become a better person. And that’s really what everybody strives to be: the best possible version of themselves that they can be.

Anna:
Mm-hmm. Can you say more about becoming the best possible version of yourself? What does that look like? What has that growth looked like?

Tyler:
I think for me personally, I’m really drawn to motivated people. I’m drawn to passionate people that care. It’s definitely a bit shocking in the world today—there seems like a lot of people that just don’t really care. But I’m drawn to things and people that care, people that are motivated, and definitely strive to do things that make me happy and also make me a better person.

When you seek that out and find these amazing people to hang out with—friends, family, whatever—it helps release those good endorphins, those little friends floating around inside your body, and just makes you a happy person. Which in the end, I think, makes you a healthy, happy person.

Anna:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, where do you find the most joy in your life?

Tyler:
Over time it’s gone through ebbs and flows, phases of what I feel is important. I’ve been fairly passionate about following my dreams. I’ve had naysayers saying, “You can’t kayak forever. You shouldn’t be doing this. You should be focusing on that.” But I’ve been really focused on following and doing the things I really enjoy doing in life.

In the past, it was hardcore kayaking and traveling, living out of a bag, which is amazing—but it gets tiring after a while. So now having a solid base, a home, a place to call home, and being able to spend as much time with my little grommets—my little kids—and my life partner makes me extremely happy.

Anna:
Yeah. And I know you love to share the river with them as well. Does that bring you a lot of joy?

Tyler:
Yeah. It’s amazing to see the tides turn—from being so focused on my personal direction, my personal gains and goals, to now being more of a coach dad, trying to help my kids pursue their little goals and achievements.

It’s very fulfilling to watch that happen with them, and it’s also personally fulfilling to give back and help people create awesomeness for themselves.

Anna:
Yeah. I agree. Recently I’ve seen people in the thought-leadership world posting things like, “Don’t follow your passion—that’s terrible advice—help someone.” And I’m kind of perplexed by that, because I wouldn’t be doing this podcast or being a coach if I hadn’t followed my initial passion of wanting to kayak. That’s all I wanted to do at one point, and it sounds like the same for you.

Tyler:
Yeah. I think being passionate about something—no matter what it is—gives you a goal set, something to focus your energy on. And that ends up being rewarding in the long run, and often the short run too.

For me, kayaking was… as a young punk kid, it was kind of running away from everything in life other than just going kayaking all the time. And that led to learning self-marketing, learning how to plan and organize and hold a schedule, meeting wonderful people all over the world, creating social skills, being able to stand in front of groups and talk to people, risk management—all that stuff—which led to where I am today.

So I totally agree: if you have a passion for something, whatever it may be, it’s important to follow it. Life can be very short, and you don’t want regrets that you didn’t do something.

Anna:
Yeah, for sure. I remember I hadn’t seen you in several years—actually I hadn’t been back to the Ottawa in like ten years—and then this was four or five years ago, and I saw you on the river. It was so fun. The Ottawa in the summer is one of my favorite all-time places to paddle. And when I saw you paddling, I was like, “Dang, Tyler looks amazing.” You were doing all the new tricks, you looked healthy, you were going for it, and you looked really good.

It seemed like you kept your motivation up—staying on top of new tricks. Sometimes I haven’t stayed up on freestyle at that level, but my coaching keeps me paddling Class IV and keeps my skills up because I want to walk my talk.

I know you’ve done a lot of coaching, and I think you worked for Keener’s in the past—did working in that environment help you?

Tyler:
Yeah, absolutely. I stepped away from the Ottawa for a bunch of years and traveled around. I lived in Norway for a period, I was down in Chile, all over the place. But I’ve always been on the bandwagon of doing trips, having a company, taking people to locations, coaching—some international coaching.

And now, the last bunch of years—since my kids came into the picture—I’ve been retreating back to my roots on the Ottawa River. One of the best things for me was getting more involved again with the Keener program. Hanging out with motivated kids who have endless energy is amazing. Being able to mentor them, hopefully turn them into better people or better versions of themselves.

And it pushes me to stay active. I could easily stop kayaking, but that would be boring, and I’d probably be a less good person than I am. Kayaking keeps me on a schedule, keeps me motivated, keeps me happy, which keeps me healthy too.

I’ve really enjoyed teaching in that program. And the people—the coaches that go through it—have been amazing motivators too. Random conversations in the eddy, talking about life experiences. And now more than ever, I guess, getting to share the “I remember when” stories because I’m kind of getting old now. I’ve seen a lot and been through a lot. So sharing those experiences is heartwarming.

Anna:
Yeah. What is your biggest challenge as a coach—what’s the biggest discomfort or challenge for you in that arena?

Tyler:
I can talk mostly about coaching youth, because that’s what I’ve been into lately. It’s interesting because young kids are told their whole life to listen to parents and teachers—older people are the boss. So when you tell a kid they should try to do something—flip upside down and hold your breath, try a freewheel off a pour-over, drop into a big gnarly hole—most of the time they just say, “Okay,” and do it.

Whereas an adult—you tell them the same thing and they have reservations. They have questions: “How’s it going to go?”

So with kids, I try to put myself in their position. I don’t want to be the old man river who just tells them to do something while I sit there with my arms crossed. I try to take opportunities to do those things too.

This summer, when we get the perfect water level on the Ottawa—mid-high—and Coliseum is a giant rapid… at a certain level it’s a legit level to jump in and swim it. We had prime level and a motivated group, and we led up to this thing where on week three we’d swim the rapid.

And the back part of my brain was telling me I should just watch or go set safety. Instead I decided, if all these kids are going to do that, I should be able to do it too.

So we jump in and swim the whole rapid, and I was way more tired than any of the kids. I realized I probably need a new life jacket because mine doesn’t float very well. But it was pushing the discomfort zone—scared, but rewarded in the end.

Anna:
(Laughing) Yeah. What you just said is so important. As an instructor trainer for the American Canoe Association, training instructors—that’s one of the big things: you have to model what you’re asking other people to do.

And I know in sports there are coaches who haven’t played at the professional level, and that’s okay. But in whitewater kayaking, when you’re leading or guiding or coaching, you’re asking someone to do something in a serious environment, it’s important to model it—because it builds trust.

And you’re always a student first, right? No matter how good you get at coaching. So I really appreciate you doing that and saying it here.

Tyler:
Yeah. Everybody learns so differently, and it’s important to encourage and be involved. If failure is our greatest success—like when we learned to walk, we stood up and fell over hundreds of thousands of times before we could run.

In kayaking, it’s important to show it’s okay to fail. If as an instructor you put yourself on this pedestal—“I’m so good, I never mess up”—it’s not going to be long before you’re dusted and left behind while everybody else keeps climbing and getting better.

Anna:
Yeah. And that’s also why I don’t ask my clients on the Ottawa to surf Phil’s—because I don’t want to surf Phil’s. They can challenge by choice, but I’m not going to do it, so I’m not going to ask you to do it.

Tyler:
Exactly. I think I’ve come to that point in my career where it’s not the getting-hurt part I’m nervous about—it’s the healing period and time off the water. I really value time on the water, so my risk tolerance has lowered.

But I feel like I’ve kept in the race where I can hang out with the young punks going to surf Phil’s, where my goal isn’t to go in and get trashed, but to make a line of it—or have a calm, composed surf—then sit back, enjoy the show, and be the encouragement.

Anna:
Yeah. And for folks listening who don’t know what Phil’s is, there are tons of videos on YouTube. It’s a gigantic hole on the Ottawa that does have a tongue through it.

Tyler:
It certainly does. With the Keener program, we put out a lot of social media of the crazy antics we do, and we get encouragement—but also negative comments. People judge: “These kids are just getting trashed and not learning anything.”

But it’s the polar opposite. We slowly build up to it. You don’t push kids to do anything—you provide a positive environment for them to push their comfort zone and succeed.

What we want is for kids to reach that discomfort zone so they realize, “Hey, that wasn’t as bad as I built it up to be.” Fear is normal, but you need to turn on the critical-thinking part of your brain and assess whether it’s legit fear—life-threatening—or fear because it’s unknown.

The more you test things in a controlled environment, unknowns turn into experience, and that leads to progression.

Anna:
Yeah. For sure. I was a playboater and got trashed a lot, put myself in big holes at my peak. Now if I get in a hole river running, I don’t freak out because I know what it feels like. I know how to get out—or sometimes you can’t get out—but I know how to side surf.

I’ve gotten roped out of a hole I stayed in for a while because I knew I was okay. I didn’t want to swim the next drop, so I waited, made eye contact with friends, and we did a rescue.

There’s value to that. It’s not about avoiding all beatings. I’m not about bragging like, “I’m such a beater”—I don’t like that. I want to be effective. But it happens, and it’s good to know what it feels like and how to manage it.

Tyler:
Totally. Freestyle leads most kayakers to become proficient creek boaters or racers because being desensitized to whitewater violence is a legit skill.

Kayaking has evolved a lot. In the early days there wasn’t much discussion about psychology—how our brains work and process things. It was trial by fire: get trashed, adjust, try again.

Now you can set yourself up for success with assessing risk, setting safety—the whole sport has improved. Not just gear tech, but how society understands risk management and the psychology of sports and decision-making in chaotic environments.

Anna:
Yeah. In the 90s, admitting you were scared wasn’t okay—at least in my circles paddling Class V. Failure wasn’t okay either, in my experience. It’s a much more supportive environment now, thank goodness.

Tyler:
Yeah. Back then, if someone had a bad line, they were shunned, booed, harassed—“Should you even be there?” And you can look at older videos—people asked about fear saying, “I don’t get scared.”

Now it’s so far from the truth. Maybe you turn fear into focus, but something psychological is happening. Now we understand that better.

Crash-and-burns now—we’re more supportive. We debrief: “That went not so well—what could you do differently?” People aren’t ashamed to talk about it. They can laugh and learn. That’s fantastic.

Anna:
You’ve traveled a lot and lived abroad part of the year. Has living abroad been a discomfort zone? Have you learned a new language? What has that taught you?

Tyler:
Growing up in a risk environment—on the river, rafting—helped my social skills and problem-solving. I’d rather talk about solutions than problems.

But moving to a foreign country was way deep into the discomfort zone. Now I can speak Swedish fully. I can read and write. But I had to put myself out there and accept that I’d sound like a fool and frustrate people.

I decided if I put effort in—even if I sound like an idiot—people would appreciate it. I’m drawn to positive people, and those are the people I become friends with. In the end, the reward is I can speak the language, read and write, and my avalanche work is in Swedish. I sometimes wonder how I pulled it off—focus and willingness.

Anna:
Wow. Are your kids fully bilingual?

Tyler:
Yeah. Pretty soon my daughter will read and write better in Swedish and English than I do. She’s also on her way with French. My kids are bilingual and ready to conquer the world.

And honestly, that was a big motivator. I didn’t want my kids to have to choose what language to speak. I didn’t want them speaking Swedish to mom and English to dad and me feeling left out. So they motivated me to learn Swedish so my kids can speak whatever language they want with either of us.

Anna:
That’s amazing. For me growing up, one of the biggest gifts was my dad. We didn’t speak French at home, but I went to French immersion and his side of the family was Francophone. Being bilingual helped me pick up Spanish later too.

I didn’t realize it at the time. I actually got bullied in French school because I was English too. It wasn’t all sweet and fun. But as an adult I’m grateful. My dad pushed me through—he was like, “You’ve got to stay with it.” I used to beg to go to English school and he was like, “No. You’re going to learn French and understand the culture.” And now I’m very grateful.

Tyler:
Yeah, exactly. The struggles are real for kids trying to focus and not understanding the end game.

The whole language thing is big. It sets part of your brain in motion and helps with lots of other stuff. When I traveled a bunch—Chile, a lot of French and Spanish-speaking countries—I bunkered down in Chile enough to learn Spanish. And my roots in Canadian school with French helped too, which allowed me to figure out something else.

My French and Spanish have become worse because my brain can only take in so much. I had to throw out some data to bring in more Swedish.

Anna:
(Laughing) Sure. That’s awesome.

What have you learned about yourself from putting yourself into the discomfort zone over and over again?

Tyler:
The discomfort zone is a process. It’s not a quick fix. When you feel that state of unknown or uncertainty, more and more it’s important to push the pause button.

It feels like the world is going faster and faster and we get consumed by it. Over the last couple of years I’ve been able to take a big deep breath, push pause, and take time to go through the process.

What are the important things? What problems do I need to solve? What’s going well? What don’t I like doing? What do I like doing? What’s the big picture game plan to conquer the world—or remain happy and healthy?

Because that’s really all we have—happiness and health. If we don’t have either or both, it’s going to be a struggle.

Anna:
When you press pause, what does that look like? Time for yourself? Mountains? River? Journaling? Conversations with your wife and family?

Tyler:
I’ve had moments where I’ve thought maybe I need more personal time, but I feel like I’ve set in motion the life I want now, so that’s good.

One big pause is reflection—looking back at recent events and taking a moment to appreciate them. Realizing, “Wow, I wasn’t fully in the moment,” but if I think about it, that was an amazing opportunity—an amazing this or that.

It might be a ski turn, a big flatwater loop, or a morning paddle into the mist with nobody around. Reflecting on those small moments that put a smile on your face clears your head space and reminds you you’re lucky to be doing what you’re doing.

Anna:
What would you say is the guiding principle of your life—the thing you turn to over and over to make decisions aligned with the life you want?

Tyler:
I often have this realization that I’ve been so fortunate. I can pat my own back and talk about great decisions and focus, but I feel like I had a lot of luck too—timing wise.

For instance, kayaking: I grew up in Beachburg on the Ottawa River shore—the paddling Mecca—and got introduced to kayaking, which changed my world. That allowed me to kayak a lot, become proficient, which led to sponsorship, traveling the world on sponsorship dollars, driving free vehicles, lots of free stuff.

The timing for that… people work their butts off now in kayaking for so little. There’s not the support or funds there used to be. So I feel like I rode the bubble at the right time, and I’m fortunate. And meeting all these fantastic people who are still getting after it is amazing.

Anna:
What I hear is you have a strong gratitude practice—whether it’s formal or not. You’re very aware of it.

Tyler:
Yeah. I think being in a different country, I often miss home or what once was. So for me, a giant life reset is going back to the Ottawa River. You show up and you’ll run into people you know—fun-loving, passionate, amazing people to surf and paddle with. That’s the ultimate recharge and reset.

Anna:
Yeah, for sure. Tyler, do you have a question for me?

Tyler:
Yeah, I do. I actually have two questions. One: I’m hoping you’re coming back to the Ottawa River—maybe you can email me some dates so we can hang out and cruise around and float in an eddy together.

And my big question is: when you return to the Ottawa and you’re hanging out in the eddy—hugs or high fives?

Anna:
Oh, I love both, but I love hugs. Anytime I have an opportunity to hug people…

The Ottawa—I didn’t grow up there. I learned to paddle on the Rouge. My family wasn’t paddlesport people. But I worked at New World and then the Ottawa was very formative. And of course being on the Canadian freestyle team.

So when I’m there and I see Ken coming down or paddling around the island in a rec boat filming, or I see Matt Caccaro coming down in a raft, or Matt Hamilton, Cindy Jamieson—my bestie there—there are so many people I don’t see often.

Even if you don’t see each other all the time, there’s a shared bond. So yes: lots of hugs, high fives, and cheers.

Tyler:
I love it. And maybe a shout out to Matt Hamilton—he’s a legend. He’s still out there paddling more than anyone I know, always with the biggest smile. Every opportunity I get to see that guy, I give him a high five.

So maybe we can do a virtual podcast high five right now to Matt Hamilton. Right on.

Anna:
Yes! High five to Matt. Actually, he’s going to be on the show in the next couple of weeks. I’m interviewing y’all in the same week, which is pretty awesome.

And for the Ottawa—yeah—we’ll be there in August. Andrew’s coming too. We haven’t fully decided, but I’m teaching—hopefully—Phil’s playboating, big water playboating, Ottawa fun through OKS, I think the week of August 16th. So we’ll be there before that, during that, and probably a little after.

Tyler:
Excellent, excellent.

Anna:
Yeah, it’ll be fun. And I’m always stoked to have Andrew up there with me too. So fun.

Tyler:
Yes. We can all work very, very hard to keep all the youngsters in line at the Garburator.

Anna:
Yeah. And I do have to say—when I’m at Garb, I’m sure the young people are like, “Who’s that old lady?” And then I’m not doing anything super fancy, but I can still throw air blunts and close-to-PNMs, and that is such a good feeling. When the youngsters are like, “Who’s that old lady?” and then I go out there and I still have skills. It’s like, yes. So good.

Tyler:
Yeah. I don’t so often go out to Garb anymore and spend a whole day there. If I’m there for a long time, it’s a couple surfs, some hugs and high fives.

But it’s always nice to slide in off the rock, give a high five, peel out onto the wave, and fire a couple really big tricks—and have people still amazed that we older, “generative” kayakers are still out there doing the things.

Anna:
Yeah, that’s right. So good. All right, are you ready for rapid fire?

Tyler:
Alright, I will do my best.

Anna:
Yeah—shorter answers. First one: what’s your favorite river metaphor?

Tyler:
River metaphor… there’s so many, but they’re all cheesy—like “go with the flow.” I’m not sure I have one.

You know the country song “Sweet Home Alabama”? I often sing that, and I’ve tried to teach as many youngsters as I can that we change it to “Sweet Home Ottawa River.” So I guess that’s more like a theme song.

Anna:
Nice. Love it. Okay—what’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Tyler:
Having a schedule is helpful for me. I don’t know if I’m OCD, but structure is good.

I always start the day with coffee—must. Checking out the weather forecast. Then I try to catch up on hockey scores. Once I’ve done those tasks and a little bit of world news, I feel like there’s no limit to the day. I’ve already half conquered the day if I achieve those things.

Anna:
Right? This is a big week for hockey scores. The Olympics.

Tyler:
It is. I just finished watching a very interesting game. Canada just beat Czechia in overtime. It was fantastic.

Anna:
Really? Wow, I didn’t watch. Overtime—dang.

Tyler:
Yeah, big time.

Anna:
Okay. What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Tyler:
That’s a tough one. I like to feel like I’ve accomplished something and I’m part of the team. So I often do the dishes at home. If I don’t do the dishes, I feel like I didn’t do my part.

That’s not exactly an answer, but it’s important for me—to be part of it. I may not be the greatest cook, but man, I can wash dishes.

Anna:
Nice. I love that answer. It’s very unique and cool. Okay—what motivates you these days?

Tyler:
Trying to make the most out of every day. My kids are a big motivator. I get up and get after the day. I like to get to bed early so I can get up early, get things done, and be an example for them.

My kids are my biggest motivator—to be an awesome dad.

Anna:
Cool. What do people get wrong about you?

Tyler:
People have this image that I’m happy-go-lucky and easygoing. But what they don’t see is the structure and organization I do to keep on track with daily stuff. I’m a very organized individual. Everything has its place.

Anna:
Throughout your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favored to win?

Tyler:
Oof. I’d like to think I was the hopeful to win. I don’t think I’ve really been the super underdog—except maybe the Liquid Skills Showdown. I was competing against Jake and Cade—there was a big ordeal in magazines and all that—so I was the underdog then.

But generally, I’m the hopeful to win. I’ll go with that.

Anna:
Yeah, right on. Okay—hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Tyler:
Wow. Maybe both. Depends.

I love flooding water and big water. There’s nothing like getting tossed around by big waves and traveling the world to find them. But more and more now, I enjoy cruising time on the river right in front of my house in Canada. I have a small rapid. So every night after dinner, I throw my kids in their little boats and I go out—sometimes even in a slalom boat—and rip eddy turns and attainments. It’s pretty fun.

Anna:
Yeah, for sure. Okay—what’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Tyler:
Comfort zone… friends, family, and high fives. Can’t ask for more. Getting to see friends and the people that are important to you.

Anna:
Freedom through discipline or “I do what I want”?

Tyler:
Freedom through discipline. If you try to do what you want all the time, you’re eventually going to run into a dead end. So you need discipline.

Anna:
In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Tyler:
Longevity.

Anna:
That’s a good one.

Tyler:
Longevity. I’m going to keep paddling forever. So we’ll see you all on the river.

Anna:
Right on. I love that. Is there anything else you want to say to our listeners?

Tyler:
We touched a bit on the psychology behind kayaking nowadays, and I think you’re doing a fantastic job leading the charge and putting it out there with branding so people are drawn to it.

But I think kayakers can go deeper into that stuff. In the avalanche world, there are tons of books about how our brain makes decisions in a risk environment. Kayakers could share knowledge with each other—books to help us understand decision-making and how we manage risk.

Because whitewater kayaking is a fantastic sport, but it’s a risk environment, and it can be scary. There’s a lot for everyone to learn, and hopefully the kayaking world can share more about risk management and risk acceptance.

Anna:
Is there a particular book you’d recommend off the top of your head?

Tyler:
Daniel Kahneman, Thinking, Fast and Slow is a good one. I just read another one—I can’t remember who wrote it—called Superforecasting.

There are lots of books. And I hear more people talking about flow state now—there’s a ton on that too. I’ve been referring to my kayaking and my focus in life as trying to find the dream state. If anyone’s seen the Benny Marr “Dream” video—we all want to be that.

If we focus and work hard, we can all find and achieve our dream state in life.

Anna:
Well said. I love that video so much.

Okay—thanks, Tyler. I appreciate you. I really enjoyed this conversation. It’s so good to catch up with you. I’ve always loved your approach—how approachable you are, joyful, supportive. I really appreciate who you are in the paddling world and in general, and I’m grateful I’ve gotten to spend time with you over the decades. I hope to spend more time with you on the river.

Tyler:
Yep, let’s surf.

Anna:
Let’s do it. Okay.