Anna
My guest today, Stephen Wright, is an accomplished and beloved whitewater paddler and coach. His freestyle awards include six time US national freestyle champion, two time world freestyle championships, bronze medalist in K -1 Men, former K -1 Squirt World Champion, and he holds the record for the deepest recorded mystery move in a squirt boat. For those of you who aren’t familiar with squirt boating and mystery moves, it’s akin to free diving in a very thin carbon kayak. Instead of diving underwater, you find a strong seam where currents collide in the river and essentially spin yourself in your kayak underwater and try to stay under for as long as possible.

Stephen has also spent the last 20 years as the Ottawa Kayak School Keener Program Head Coach, is part of the Jackson Kayak Research and Development Team, and most recently is the founder, owner, and boat builder at Dream Boats Kayaks, where he builds beautiful custom carbon boats for world -class competitors and freestyle enthusiasts.

Thanks for being here. Thanks for being here, Steven. I appreciate you.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Thanks, and I appreciate the lovely intro.

Anna
So when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you? What does that feel like or what do you think about?

Stephen Wright Esquire
That’s a good question. think probably the word would almost be synonymous with fear for me, which is often for me caused by sort of unknown experiences or outcomes.

Anna
Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of folks that I’ve interviewed and myself included kind of think the same way. It’s what, you know, when you don’t know the outcome and you can’t control it, then that discomfort starts to creep in big time. When you think of unknown outcomes, is there anything that comes to mind for you that really stands out as putting you in your discomfort zone.

Stephen Wright Esquire
I think there’s, there’s lots. just depends on what I’m doing in any given moment. Sometimes when I’m squirt boating and I might be somewhere where I could go really deep. That is often a terrifying environment, but it’s awesome. It’s super fun. As a competitive athlete who is kind of like not winning anymore.

Anna
Mm.

Stephen Wright Esquire
There’s often some discomfort going into these events, just feeling less prepared than I used to be years and years and years ago, and just kind of not knowing how they’re going to go. Sometimes just, I don’t know, often trying new things. Sometimes it’s just anything new and kind of unknown. Sometimes I’ve been triggered doing things that I know won’t hurt me, but trying to run them backwards for some reason, all of a sudden it’s like, I haven’t done this on purpose. I wonder what’s going to happen. Or sometimes running a big rapid or waterfall, kind of get a little nervous ahead of time. And then even knowing it’s going to be fine.

Anna
Yeah, I want to pick up on something that you said because I think it’s really interesting and I don’t think I’ve really talked to anyone about this particular thing yet on the podcast. And that is you mentioned as a competitor who doesn’t win a lot anymore going into competition. And could you speak a little more to that because I find that I would like to hear more about that, like what that means for you, what that’s like for you, why do you continue to compete, all of that.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, I think, you know, when I first started kayaking and play boating, just being able to be in the eddy and do anything that might actually score points in some kind of competition or race with some of the best in the world was really exciting. And there’s no expectation of, you know, winning or competing all that well or being in the top five or any of kind of stuff, just because there’s nobody knows who you are yet. And there’s no expectation that you’re going to be very good. and so, but I went through a phase where I won a lot of stuff for a lot of years. and, and then it seemed like sort of the younger generation just kept getting better and better. And I was just slowing down, maybe working on other things. And all of a sudden, you know, Dane is just better than anyone’s ever been. And there’s a couple other kids that have gotten really, really, really good. And so a lot of times I show up to freestyle events now and I haven’t been spending all winter just practicing for freestyle competition. I’ve been building boats or just doing other things. And so I show up and I’m not feeling nearly as prepared as I was when this was kind of my sole focus. And, and that’s always a little unnerving just because I know what it used to feel like and it doesn’t feel the same anymore because I’m doing other things and it’s still really, really fun because I’m still learning new skills beforehand. I still get to go paddle with my friend. I still get to go all over the place. but it’s definitely just a different experience feeling like, you know, I know what it’s like to be ready to do really well at one of these and I’m just not feeling, you know, quite as sure about that anymore.

Anna
Yeah, I think it’s cool that you think still think that it’s fun because yeah, that can be, that can also feel stressful. What, so for me, competing was never that fun. Everything around competing was really fun, which is why I did it. I mean, I loved, same thing. I loved getting better. I loved the people. I loved, yeah, the community around it, the travel.

And I did want to do well. just, for me, the mindset game, which is why I do what I do now, because the mindset game has always been tricky for me. And so do you ever, and one of my, biggest hangups I always had was always afraid of other people judging me. Like it was really hard. And I think I obviously it’s a lifelong journey. And so when you go into these competitions, knowing that you’re not as prepared, is that ever a fear and if it’s not, how did you ever get over that or what do you recommend? Because I know you coach a lot. What do you recommend to folks to kind of put that either away or focus on other things?

That’s my question.

Stephen Wright Esquire
I think, no, I think a lot of people spend a lot of time worrying about what other people will think of them for all kinds of things. And when you’re competing, you’re at, for at least a couple of minutes, you’re the center of attention where no one’s looking at anything except you. And I, especially when I’m teaching teenagers about how to do this kind of stuff or compete at anything, I try to focus them on the same things that have helped me keep this fun, which is that the goal is that you get to learn all kinds of new things leading up to it. And that the experiences of getting to paddle with your friends and having gained all kinds of new skills means that even before the game starts.

The goal is you’ve made friendships and learn skills that will make kayaking more fun for the rest of your life. Like if you learn a new trick, that new trick you can do any day. If you learn a new skill, like every time you kayak can be more fun. If you make new friends, then, you know, every time you go paddle with them can be more fun as a result of it. So I think, I think the goal for me and for, you know, a lot of kids I teach about this stuff is try to have already won before the thing starts. And then the game itself is just kind of icing on the cake. It doesn’t define how good you are as a paddler. It doesn’t define how good you are as compared to anybody else. It doesn’t define how good you are as a freestyle paddler, play, voter, competitor, whatever. Like all it says is,

We played a game together and this is who happened to do well, you know, in these three rides or whatever.

Anna
Mm -hmm. Yeah, it’s a great, great perspective. I really wish I had had, you know, coaches when I was, you know, when I was competing, they didn’t really exist at the time. And I think it’s like so awesome that young folks, you know, going through the Keener program and even folks who don’t go through the Keener program, there’s resources, some resources at the team level, you know, to…

you know, get coaching. So I think that’s great. When I’ve seen you coaching, because when I’m up teaching my Playboating Week on the Ottawa, I get to see you, which is really fun and hang out. And I, you put, you are in charge of putting teenagers in uncomfortable situations day after day. And you seem to really relish in it know, will be surfing garb and yeah, there’s everyone. There are the keeners trying to get out like, you know, on the river right side and hard places or there they are swimming in the pore over and you’re standing there like you and David are standing there, you know, cheering them on or, know. So what, you know, why do you, why do you all, why do you do that over and over and what do you think is the benefit of that for those kids?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Well, I think that the Ottawa is freakishly safe. And so we can do things there that would probably not be possible anywhere else. And what it means is we can get kids just out of their comfort zone every day, trying new things. And especially on that river, not only is it safe, but there’s just been so many rafts and kayaks that have gone through there over the years that

There’s only a few spots that people regularly could get hurt and it’s easy to know how to avoid those. And so as long as we’re putting people into situations where other people have regularly been, then we know it’s, probably not going to get hurt. And that gives us the opportunity to say, let’s try this scary stuff. Let’s talk about why it’s okay here. And so kids come out of the Kiener program having dealt with a lot of fear and intensity, but with a whole group of them that are all like stoked and cheering and we create a really supportive environment. We set safety. We, they all get swift water rescue certified. They’re, they get a lot of rescue practice on each other for the whole weeks that the three weeks that are there. And it’s like, it’s a, it’s a community where we really try to celebrate failure is just part of the learning process. And so it’s a really different game where you’ve got, you know, 10 to 20 of your peers cheering you on to try something and everyone’s scared together, but you can trust that the, you’ve got coaches that know that this is going to be okay. And they’ve explained, well, it’s okay. And then we’ve got these like little mini steps along the way to lead them to want to do things that would be otherwise terrifying surfing fills or whatever. It’s not like we just drop into it day one. It’s like, okay, I know it’s scary suck it up. Just go. You know, we like, we swim in the football at first. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we, and I think it’s like over 20 years, we’ve kind of learned like, what kind of progression we can set up so that the most kids possible can do the most spectacular things and get success. And it’s awesome. Like I think, as you know from your like focus, even just with this podcast that kind of is living outside of your comfort zone is sort of the best ticket to growth. And it leads to a lot of kids who are like so fired up on paddling and just so confident.

It’s awesome. It’s fun.

Anna
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. It looks like you all have a blast. Yeah, think the setting the, setting the, yeah, I do think that was for me, I can only speak for myself, was missing when I was coming up in kayaking was like the, it could have been a projection of mine too. You know, it’s always good to, you know, be self -aware and be like, what was I kind of creating in my head versus what was actually happening?

But I do, for me, it definitely felt like there wasn’t necessarily that strong support system. It was more like, it up, go for it, or this is what you need to do to be like us, as opposed to what you’re creating. And I know you came up in the 90s as well. I mean, I can remember meeting you long, long, long time ago, I think on the Potomac sometime. And so what…

Stephen Wright Esquire
yeah.

Anna
Because you did come up in that time. what has anything shifted? Like did you have an aha moment or some type of epiphany of like, or have you always been more inclusive and supportive?

Stephen Wright Esquire
I think there’s still some of what you’re describing depending on who people paddle with now. I mean, not everybody is super focused on like process and learning and excitement and fun. A lot of people fall into the mindset of what, you know, how hard is what you’re running that defines how good you are instead of thinking what defines how good I am and what I should be celebrating is what I learned and what was fun. And I’m sure there are still, you know, lots of people out there who feel a lot of the things you were describing but I’ve been working with teenagers long enough that I, I really have a vision for how I would like the kayaking world to be.

And I hope that I can sort of cause a lot of teenagers who are the future of sport to eventually be just ridiculously positive and excited and inclusive and happy to be able to analyze their fears so that they can either do things that are scary or say, I’m scared because this might actually kill me. I shouldn’t do this.

Anna
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think I love that you’re thinking that big picture. I love that you’re thinking that big picture of, this is how I would like the future of the sport to be, or at least have pockets of the sport to be like this, putting that into practice.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, it’s fun. Like a lot of these, a lot of these kids end up being people that I paddle with for the rest of the year. And so, you know, in the back of my mind, the Keener program is always like, what can I do to encourage them to be the kind of people that I actually want to hang out with and kayak with? So kids like, you know, Nick Troutman and Dane and Emily all came through the Keener program and I get to paddle with them all the time.

And there’s a whole lot of others too. Like we’ve probably had 800 kids come through there over the last 20 years or more. And so I get to paddle with a lot of them all over the place. And that’s, it’s fun. Cause then a lot of them, when I get to paddle with them again, are still super positive and stoked and happy to try whatever and just want to go play, which is awesome.

Anna
Yeah. When you say you make failure a part of growth, you know, in the program, is there anything specific that you say to kids like, you know, because I can imagine everyone is different and some folks process failure differently. So I’m sure you’ve had kids who have been a little harder on themselves and maybe it’s been a little tougher for them to accept failure as a part of growth.

Is there any, like, what do you say or how do you frame it for your, for the kids or for the teenagers?

Stephen Wright Esquire
We’re pretty fortunate. do, in addition to just kayaking stuff, we do all kinds of other communication things, because we’re kind of leadership focused in addition to just kayaking skills. And so one of those is weekly, they call it speech night, where the kids have to give like, you know, short public speeches on various topics. Usually it’s kayaking related, so it can be fun.

But usually once a session I end up, use one of those to talk about failure and how it’s kind of like the main ticket to growth that the people who fail the most are the ones who are most likely to actually become more than they are. And that we should aspire to be people who are failing all the time ecause it means we’re trying to become more than we are. And that the sort of kids who are already good at a lot of things and only do what they’re already good at are probably not going to get to be much more than they already are. But the kids that are, you know, falling on their face over and over again, those are the kids who are becoming something even greater than what they’ve been in the past. kind of at all times when we’re teaching skills, we talk about the idea that

you know, these things are going to take a lot of tries and a lot of, a lot of fails. So like every single thing we work on, whether it’s throwing a throwback or trying to serve for the first time or rolling on their offside or you name it, we’re always, anytime someone doesn’t get it right, it’s like, that’s great. Like no one gets this right the first time.

No matter how good your instructors are, you have to actually do this and you’ve never done it before. So the idea that you’re going to get anything worth doing perfect on your first try is just unrealistic. And, and especially with like the beauty of teenagers is that they’re smart enough to like think logically, but they’re still used to doing what adults tell them to do. So if you tell them we are about to do something and we’re all going to crash and burn.

And it’s going to be great. And this is how we should think about it. Especially in like an excited group of them, they’re going to do whatever it is you want them to do. And kind of with the right staff that are all have all bought into the same things you can, it’s, easy to generate that kind of attitude. And it’s really fun to be a part of. like,

Then when I crash and burn and they get it on film, then I can just laugh about it and we can watch it over and over again in slow -mo and everyone’s cheering. And then it’s, that’s what it’s like for everybody. And it’s really fun.

Anna
Yeah, that is one thing I like about when you have a fun group of paddlers and at a high level, I feel like it’s at a high level. I’ve been grateful to have been surrounded by that most of my paddling career is like it’s funny when people crash and burn. Only when it’s like in a safe space, like you’re saying, not if it’s like a true, like you’re on class five and it’s, you know terrible swim or something, but like if you’re paddling the Gali or paddling the Ottawa and like you face surf on garb, you know, and then people cheer for you and it’s funny. And it does take the like, you know, it takes the like, you know, I feel like when I’m teaching and coaching, there can be a lot of like, you know, feeling bad or, or, you know, seeing it as a failure.

And like it does, if you can surround yourself with people that kind of just think it’s funny. But you know, I’ve shared this before on certain podcast episodes is I’ll post on social media sometimes when I kind of biff it or, and then I have folks like then trying to coach me on how to do it better. And I’m like, that’s not the point of this post. Like the point is just to be funny and to like show that like it happens and it’s okay.

it’s okay that I tried that splat and like drug my knuckles across the rock. Like I’m okay, I’m laughing about it. I’m not asking for coaching. And so, yeah, I think that’s a good message or like I like to be that model for folks as well. And also kind of, I think more folks can read the room. You know, I’d be like.

You know, not everyone’s asking for coaching and let’s just make it fun and lighthearted. So.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s always a mix of like what, you know, how much time is spent doing things that just build stoke and are just fun and ridiculous and silly and how much energy is spent actually like really focused working on skills. And I think a good, a great day is going to have a pretty big mix of the two of those. Cause people can really only

In my experience, focus on learning something for a pretty limited amount of time in any given hour. And so if you can build, you know, just fun, stoke building things into there, then it stays really fun for the whole day.

Anna (25:40.141)
Yeah.

So recently you started your own company, Dreamboat Kayaks, which is building carbon, lightweight carbon boats. They’re beautiful, like so sparkly. Because running your own business can feel really uncomfortable. So has that put you in your discomfort zone? And if so, how and how are you approaching that?

Stephen Wright Esquire
There’s been a lot of times when I was very stressed building boats, especially in that first year, because there’s just so much to learn. I’ve been very fortunate in that Ed and Mariola from Murky Waters shared a ton of their knowledge with me and encouraged me to do this. then Rachel, my partner, was super encouraging of me doing this.

But like I was able to go up and build boats with Ed at Murky Waters and kind of learn how he does it. And he’s always available to answer questions. So was able to start ahead of the curve, standing on the backs of other people who were willing to lift me up and share knowledge. But for me, the stress was when the boats weren’t coming out the way I wanted, when things weren’t working realizing that I had taken money from my friends and I felt the stress of trying to deliver something awesome to them. And I feel really good about all the boats we actually made and got to people, but I felt a tremendous amount of stress to make sure that they were getting something that was gonna be great for them. Cause it’s not like, you know, the kayaking community is pretty small.

And so these are all people that I paddle with. the first, you know, the first boat building season, almost everybody that bought a boat from me was one of my closer friends. And so it was like, you know, if I make, if I don’t make them something epic, I’m going to like feel bad every single time I see them. And so that definitely put me out of my comfort zone.

This is learning a new skill just takes a while and figuring out, you know, how to repeatedly do things in a way that gives you what you want is, is weird. It’s hard.

Anna
Yeah.

Yeah. When you posted when you were first starting about, you said, here’s the price for the kayaks and no, you can’t get a discount on them. And I thought that was really great because our industry is really small and I understand it, like folks want deals, I get it.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Hahaha

Yeah.

Anna
I feel like to some extent, the kayaking paddle sports world has kind of shot itself in the foot at times by giving too many deals. Because ultimately, if people want new boats and they want better designs or they want better outfitting or they want better fitting gear, these are businesses. They have to support the…

designers, staff, the customer service people. mean, you’re really small right now, but still it has to support you. You have to live, have bills to pay. And so I think that’s, I really appreciated that as a business owner myself in the paddle sports world of you were really, I feel like standing in your value and your experience. And I really appreciated that. How did that feel for you?

Stephen Wright Esquire
That felt pretty normal to me. was like, I anticipated that building kayaks was going to be a lot less fun than going kayaking. And I knew that this is going to be, you know, hot, itchy, sticky, sweaty. Like on any given hour, there’s nothing pleasant going on in terms of building the kayaks. It’s not like you would pull out any given hour and be like, man, that was so fun. It’s, it’s, it’s work and it’s…

You end up itchy and covered in epoxy and gel coat. And I mean, I just had glitter on my face from just walking into the shop. And so I was like, I’m not going to do this and just give these kayaks away. Like I’m, I’m putting a lot of hours into this and that’s, I want to make the best boats that I can. want to make toys that allow me and my friends to have more fun than they’ve ever had in their lives. But this is what they cost and it’s not for everybody. And it’s not even like for that first year, I barely was even able to pay myself anything. It was mostly just learning the process and trying to, you know, pay back the startup loan and making sure that what we were doing was like financially sustainable.

And I think it is, and we’ve made some big loan payments, which feels great. And we have enough money in the bank to buy more stuff so we can start making more boats in the next three weeks or so, which would be great. so it’s, but at the same time, it was like, I just know what will happen when we just start, if we were to start discounting things, then it’s all of a sudden, I don’t want to do this anymore because

Not only is it fun, not all that fun and itchy and weird, but all of a sudden, I don’t want to be financially stressed because I’m building boats for my friends. That’s not worth it.

Anna
Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. There was something that I was just thinking about that came to mind and then I just lost it.

Stephen Wright Esquire
That’s okay. I, I joked with my friends that I was going to have like a reverse sponsorship program so that, know, the base, the base price was going to be three grand for a boat. then depending on how likely someone was to make me feel bad about my own paddling by them going bigger than me, their price was going to go up so that, you know, if it’s someone that I’m pretty sure I’m going to like,
be able to out paddle them on any given day, that’s a $3 ,000 boat. If it’s someone that is, you know, might on any given day go bigger than me, then that’s going to be a $4 ,000 boat. And if it’s someone who’s regularly beating me in these boats, that’s a five grand boat. And if Dane wants one, it’s a $10 ,000 kayak. Like, I think that’s the way to handle it because I’ve got to handle the fact that they’re going out there making me feel inferior.

Anna
Hahaha.

Stephen Wright Esquire
if they’re going huge in these boats when I’m in the eddy and I can’t go as big as them.

Anna
But it must feel pretty good to see your boats go huge on the other hand.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, it’s really cool. Even though the building process is itchy and not all that fun, it’s rewarding to see really cool, pretty strong boats that people are flying in and they’re holding up really well. It’s definitely a rewarding thing.

Anna
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that’s hilarious. One thing that I also just thought of is that, you know, when folks say, well, I can’t afford that or, you know, there is someone in a, I think a group, a paddling group, someone had recommended my instruction services and the person had said something like,

yeah, well, she’s way too expensive and we’re not all stockbrokers, we’re paddlers. And I think that that’s, I’m just saying that because I think the paddling community is made up of many different types of people and regardless of what you do for a living, it’s really about prioritizing what you want. And we’ve all done that. I’ve taken trips where I’ve,

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Anna
that’s been a focus. So I spend less on one something else. I spend less on something else so I can spend more on what’s important to me. So I think that, you know, that mindset that we have to price lower is just, it’s a lose lose for everyone because then like you said, you would feel, you would also feel resentful if you weren’t getting compensated for what you do because it’s hard work. And then probably the quality would suffer, right? If we want high quality, then we want to feel valued and like our time is valued.

Anna
So what’s your best advice for listeners on navigating discomfort zone?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Good question. I think that everybody feels fear and discomfort for almost all things in life. And most of the best things that are worth doing that cause the most growth are often going to make people feel a little bit of fear and discomfort. so kind of like with most things in life, it’s worth when we feel those things, I think.

So we’re sitting back and saying, why am I afraid right now? Why am I uncomfortable? And then if I can understand why I’m uncomfortable, then I can say, this is not actually helpful. This is something I really do wanna do. I understand the risks. What I’m afraid of is that I don’t, is usually the unknown. And then I can go ahead and say, I’m gonna do this anyway.

Or maybe I feel uncomfortable and I’m like, why am I, why is my Spidey sense tingling right now? And then I think about it and it’s like, your Spidey sense is tingling because something terrible is about to happen to you. You should not do this. And then it’s worth sitting back and saying, yeah, my fear is here to keep me alive. And in this case, it knows what it’s talking about and I should listen to it. And.

A lot of times in kayaking, we are dealing with really high powered intense environments. And it’s easy to feel like I don’t know what’s gonna happen or I’m afraid because I haven’t done this either at all before or just in the same way before. And then…

then we have to deal with that over and over and over again. So a lot of whitewater kayakers actually, I think, get pretty good at dealing with fear because there’s no way to avoid it. And if we try to avoid it or learn to just shut it off, then that doesn’t help us either. Then we get hurt. And so I think kayaking…

Unlike most other sports, the environment we’re putting ourselves in is dynamic. It’s relentless. It’s changing. It is way more power powered up than we are. And so we can’t pretend to be until control all the time. And it, it, you know, forces us to deal with being afraid on a pretty regular basis. And so I think we kind of get, if we can build good habits for how we deal with those feelings and that,that actually serves people really well for everything in life.

Anna
Yeah. How do you discern between like your spidey sense that is telling you like back off and your, I’m nervous, I’m gonna do it anyway.

Stephen Wright Esquire
A lot of it is, is I think I just have to sort of analyze and think through like, why am I feeling the things I’m feeling? and, and then decide whether things are worth, worth it or not. Like, I don’t know, maybe five years ago, I had spent a lot of time scouting, Greeter falls, which is like, I don’t know, 50 ish feet. And I hadn’t run that many waterfalls at that height.

And, but I had spent a lot of time at various places doing 15 to 20 foot ones and really sort of thinking, I want to run this. want to run this. I’d gotten in at low water. I had drone scouted it. I had like seen everything. I decided this is something I want to do. Like I was confident that I could do this without hurting myself. And then we get there and it was a big fun group.

And we all spent a lot of time scouting. And then all of a sudden I was just like, scared and thinking, I don’t know if I’m going to do this. Like, I’m not feeling it. Like it’s, this is not right. Like all of a sudden I’m, you know, flooded with the, just gripped and nervous. And it’s like, what’s going on? And, and so I was getting close to the point where it was like, yeah, I’m just going to walk away. And then I had to just kind of sit back for a second and be like,

No, no, no, no, no. Like you did all the prep work. You know what this is. I am sure I can do this without getting hurt. You know, just focus on what you got to focus on and do this. You’re going to be glad you did afterwards. And, and so I did go ahead and just sort of run it anyway. And, I don’t have that much experience on drops of that height. And so it, it wasn’t a perfect line, but it was.

fine and I didn’t get hurt and it was fun and I’m really glad I did it. And I’ve had similar situations, even like, even on the, the booth next to garb, for example, like I move that all the time. I surf it, I splat wheel it. I do Pogo flips off of it. We swim in it for fun. And then one day, two summers ago, I was like, okay, Keener’s like, if you’ve done this a bunch, let’s try backboofing it.

And, then all of a sudden I’m thinking about paddling towards it backwards and I’m scared out of my mind for some reason. And it’s like, why am I scared right now? Like I have surfed this the worst that could possibly happen. You do for fun. Like, why is this scary? And with all of them, I think it’s scary because it’s just like new and unknown. And sometimes you look at those and it’s like, this is scary because

Your brain just doesn’t like new and unknown. So I’m going to try doing anyway, if I think it’s going to be fun. And sometimes it’s like, way I can see actual risk here that I’m not really worth willing to take today. Know what I mean?

Anna
Yeah, yeah, totally. What I hear you say is that, you know, recognizing that neurons are firing in your brain to keep you safe and getting curious about that.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah. And you know, the, other thing that, that causes for me all the time is squirt boating, which is like the weirdest and maybe my favorite kind of kayaking. and for people who don’t know much about it, you’re, mentioned at the beginning, it’s these tiny custom made boats that aren’t much bigger than a surfboard and they allow paddlers to like dive the boat into downward currents and swim around underwater a lot like freediving, and that’s called a mystery move. But unlike everything else in the rest of my life, I’m not interacting with a three -dimensional surface that I can see. Like when you’re kayaking, you’re stuck basically to the surface of the water. Like if the water goes down a chute, you go down with it, you can see that you’re going with it. Like it’s like a slide, or you can see waves and the boat goes up and over them and you can paddle front to back or side to side, and you could spin around or whatever. And in a play boat, you can do little tricks that sometimes get you out of the water a little bit, but in a squirt boat, you can move fully three dimensionally through all the currents. And so it’s, it’s almost like if you were above the water, it’d be like the ability to fly. Like you can go up, down side to side front and back. and it’s really cool and it’s really weird.

And half of the game is like, you know, learning to hold your breath and be okay with that and have fun anyway. And half of the game is learning to feel all of the crazy pressures that start to build as you go deeper and deeper and deeper and deal with the fact that it gets darker and darker the deeper I go. And it’s like a really unnerving environment.

But the places I generally do this are places that are known to be safe. And so it’s, it’s just, it is nothing more. Once you’re good enough to make the boat do what you want, is nothing more than a mental battle every single time to like stay calm and actually enjoy being in this weird, almost like angry environment that nothing else in life really prepares you to be in.

And so it’s, especially in spots like the one I found here on the Chattahoochee in Columbus, like it is really deep. And, and if you try to go really deep, you can go more than 20 feet deep. And there’s a lot of pressure down there and the boat starts to squeeze and it gets pitch black and you don’t know what’s happening. And, and it’s, it’s, it’s so challenging to be at some of those depths and just think stay cool, stay cool, you got this, this is what you wanted. Like, it’s all right, like you’re gonna, you’re less than five seconds from the surface. Anytime you want, you can come up, but it’s like, it feels like a victory to hang out at three seconds at those depths before like panic takes over. And it’s just like, I’m out of here, this is too much. And because like a big part of your brain is thinking, holding my breath is really scary. Not being able to breathe is really scary. All this weird pressure all over me is scary. And the total lack of light, like cuts off all the information going into your brain, like 85 % or something. And so everything about the environment feels unnerving. But it’s just so cool.

And then like, you get back to the surface and it’s so individually challenging that no one else in the eddy has any idea what just happened to you. Like you feel like you just fought a dragon and all you can do is think about getting back down there and then you get back down there again and it’s terrifying. And you’re like, why do I like this? It’s so scary, but it’s so cool. I love it.

Anna
Right? Yeah. I think that’s, I don’t squirt boat, but even in just surface kayaking, I ask myself that sometimes like, why do you keep doing this? It’s like, cause it’s so fun. I don’t know. Type two fun. There’s something about it.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah.

Anna
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Loved hearing about Mystery Moving. It’s pretty cool to watch too from the surface, because y ‘all disappear for a long time. And it’s also unnerving for people watching. Like, where did they go? Are they coming up? Where are they going to come up? Because you pop up downstream, you know? It’s cool.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah. And sometimes, especially when the water is more clear and there’s depending on the mystery move spot, like sometimes there’s rocks that you can play with. You can fly around them underwater, kind of Eddie out behind them under little overhanging lips. You can see whirlpools coming down around you. looks like little tornadoes. like it can put you into these just really unique, beautiful, cool environments, but it’s definitely nonstop discomfort. But it’s just so fun. And unlike hard whitewater paddling, the danger level, assuming you’re in places that are known to be safe, is pretty low. And it’s just a really wild way to experience the rivers. It’s so cool. It’s hard to explain.

Anna
Yeah, I can hear your passion for it and like the stoke that it gives you. It’s really cool. Thanks for sharing. Do you have a quote? yeah. You know, Andrew likes it. He goes and and squirt boats on the on the Nola checky. He has fun. I don’t know. I’ve never been drawn to it, but I probably should. Because it would be a fun experience.

Stephen Wright Esquire (50:12.273)
You gotta try it, Anna.

Stephen Wright Esquire
It’d be weird.

Anna
Yeah.

Okay, do you have a question for me?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, you’ve been doing so many different things for so long. What do you think that the biggest, I guess maybe what’s sort of the most rewarding of all of the things that you get to do?

Anna
Hmm, that’s a good question.

Anna
I think so the most rewarding that brings me Stoke is like being of service to folks. So whether that’s through coaching and I, it sounds very altruistic and it’s, mean, I don’t feel like I’m that altruistic because I mean, obviously I love what I do and you know, I’ve been, I’ve followed my passion, you know, and at first that passion was kayaking. So kayaking all the time, like all the time. That’s all I wanted to do. And then, I’ve always been.

I love the river and actually, you know, I love the metaphors from the river and they’ve taught me so much and paddling has been, in the community has been such a force for me in facing fear, building confidence in my life. And so sharing that I think is the most like satisfying and seeing other folks also grow, learn, get amazing results from that. Whether it’s, you know, I had a client the other day get his first combat role and I was like so pumped, you know? Or it’s like, for me, I still love also, you know, like…

teaching the Playboating Week on the Ottawa, that’s something I want to do because I love being on the Ottawa and I get to paddle as well. And then also introduce people to an amazing… So I love introducing people to an amazing places. I love helping people navigate their discomfort zones, right? Like you’ve been talking about in an environment in which they feel supported because I haven’t always felt supported. And so creating that environment for folks to excel and to change the narrative of

You don’t have to suck it up. You can get amazing results, even better results by being supported. So this is a really long -winded answer. I think that what I get the most stoke from is holding space for people, holding a powerful and calm, yet also kind of tough love space for people to challenge themselves.

to move through their discomfort zone and to excel at whatever’s important to them. And so that can be on the river. It can be in my one -on -one coaching. It can be through my Ayurvedic health coaching. It can be through mental agility coaching. Whatever I do, it’s really to hold an empowering space for folks. And then on the personal side, there’s nothing.

like when I was just at the Ottawa, like blunting on garb, just both way, like surfing that wave. still get, I’m so grateful that I spent so much time playboating and that I can still, I only playboat about once, you know, one week a year now and to still be able to get on a wave like garb and do some tricks that I’ve really enjoyed doing is such a joy. So, you know, I think that’s.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Anna
long -winded answer, that’s what I would say.

And I think just to build on that, think that sometimes I get stuck and I don’t know if you have ever felt this way as a coach to feel like you need to be giving people things, that you need to be giving them exercises, skills building, be doing things with them. what I’ve learned over the many couple of decades coaching is that the lit my listening of people and the space that I create for them is actually probably more powerful than anything I actually tell them, but it’s not as obvious.

Stephen Wright Esquire
That sounds cool, I like that.

Anna
Yeah, thanks for that question.

Stephen Wright Esquire
We caught me off guard. I didn’t know you were going to ask me to interview you.

Anna
All right, are we ready for rapid fire?

Anna
It’s in the guest prep form, Stephen.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, I looked at that like two weeks ago and it seemed like there was good stuff in there. You know, was like, you know, future Stephen should look at that again. And then he didn’t.

Anna
You did good.

That’s okay. And you’ll notice that I didn’t stay on, I don’t like to stay on the questions because then it’s more of an interview instead of a conversation. So, okay, rapid fire questions. So meant to be like short answers. Okay, what’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Stephen Wright Esquire
All right, hit me.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Coffee. Without it, I’m not sure the world is a real place.

Anna
What’s a non -negotiable self -care practice?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Nope. Sorry.

Anna
It’s fine. You’re just shaking your head.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah.

Anna
Wouldn’t you say it’s kayaking, non -negotiable self -care, maybe squirt boating?

Stephen Wright Esquire
that’s a good one. It would be kayaking for sure. I guess I just never think in those terms, but you’re right. Yeah.

Anna
Right?

Anna
Yeah.

What’s a favorite motivational book or talk?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Oof. I don’t have any of those. Sorry.

Stephen Wright Esquire
I’m failing at your rapid fire questions. I’m totally failing. I’m like the worst one. Maybe some of the others will give you better answers.

Anna (57:40.732)
Hahaha It’s okay.

Okay, I’m going to keep going. Just remember, embrace the fail, right? Embrace the suck. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. Okay. Throughout the course of your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favored to win?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Okay, I mean, I’ve been failing and it’s been fun. Yeah.

Anna
Hmm. Hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Stephen Wright Esquire (58:11.694)
wow. Both depending on what’s available at any given moment.

Anna
What’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Stephen Wright Esquire
vast.

Anna
That’s interesting. Say more about that.

Stephen Wright Esquire
I think that I’ve spent enough time putting myself in slightly scary environments that the breadth of where I’m now comfortable is pretty big.

I’m pretty happy living in places that are slightly less than totally comfortable.

Anna
freedom through discipline or I do what I want.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Ooh, both for sure. There’s, I think, a lot of benefit towards being disciplined and trying to learn. But I think that if that comes at the expense of enjoyment, then it’s time to change the mix.

Anna (59:27.094)
In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Stephen Wright Esquire (59:36.19)
I don’t know, robots.

Anna
Okay.

Anna
The best, most beautiful carbon boats ever made?

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah, that sounds good. But that’s more than one word. I would say, how about positivity? How’s that? Positivity.

Anna
Yes, I love that.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Yeah.

Anna
Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners, Stephen?

Stephen Wright Esquire
I think, I hope that they, whatever kind of kayaking they get to do or whatever it is they do that they love, I hope they go out and enjoy it because it’s, this weird sport we do, I think makes a lot of lives better and ultimately people whose lives are better tend to make the world a better place.

Anna
Dang, that’s a mic drop. You came back from the failed rapid fire.

Stephen Wright Esquire
I was pretty stoked about robots, to tell you the truth. I thought I nailed that one.

Anna
Hahaha, as always, it is a joy and so much fun to talk with you, Stephen. Thank you for being here. Appreciate you and look forward to, yeah, and look forward to paddling with you, hopefully on the golly.

Stephen Wright Esquire
Thanks, Anna, I really appreciate it.