Anna
My guest today, Shane Benedict, fell in love with paddling 45 years ago as a rambunctious kid and, over the decades, has worked and played his way into many aspects of the whitewater world. The desire to have as much fun on the water as possible led him to teach kayaking for the better part of 20 years. He also guided trips & explored remote rivers around the globe. As a competitive kayaker, he was a 3-time US National Team Member and Bronze medalist in both Freestyle Kayaking and Extreme Racing, and went on to coach athletes for competitive kayaking. Along that path he helped host, organize, and judge events from the local stage to the World Championships. He has published many articles & photos, produced videos and created a long-running blog about kayaking and a life in rivers. In 2000, Shane co-founded Liquidlogic Kayaks where he continues today to be the main designer for both Liquidlogic Kayaks and its sister brand Native Watercraft. There is nothing that he enjoys quite so much as messing around in and with boats

Thanks for being here, Shane. I really appreciate you. And I want to add that I’ve known you for so long. You are one of my quote unquote safe people. Like when I go paddling, like when I think of you being on the river, like I know that it’s going to be a, like, I guess safe space for me, probably because I’ve known you so long. And I think you’ve, I know you’ve seen like lots of ups and downs.

I’m just really excited to sit down with this conversation because you’ve definitely seen my discomfort zone. I’m and I’ve probably seen yours. Although when I’m in my discomfort zone, you know, sometimes we’re not so aware of other folks’s discomfort zone. So anyway, thanks for being

Shane Benedict
Probably so, probably so.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve checked in on some episodes and there’s some, some good stuff going on. love it. I love the communication, the discussions.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, thanks. It’s really fun so far. So my first question for you is what does your discomfort zone look like, feel like, or when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you?

Shane Benedict
actually the funny is it’s the, the first thing that comes up is, my lower back, which being a long time kayaker, most of us have issues with our lower back. And it’s kind of the, if, if my lower back is complaining to me at all, then my day is a little different. I have to, I have to pay attention to that so that it doesn’t influence, you know, the rest of the week or whatever.

Anna
Right?

Shane Benedict
And it also takes away confidence that, you know, makes me feel unstable, you know, so a lot of what I do is pay attention to my, my body, but specifically my, my lower back, which is something I’ve dealt with since I was in my twenties,

Anna
Hmm. Yeah. What have you done? Or what what do you do? Is there anything that you find helpful to like manage your lower back pain or discomfort?

Shane Benedict
Yeah, there’s, mean, two specific things that really, that are basically my, my stalwarts, my things I have to do. one is drink water and I have to, I notice significant difference in my back. If I’ve let myself get a few days out of my routine of drinking several big water bottles a day. and as simple as that sound, that’s so crazy. I’ll, I’ll one day I’ll be hurting a little bit and I’ll look back through

last three or four days and I’ll be like, oh, I was distracted. I didn’t drink my water. But then the other one is a morning routine. I do a really short core exercise and then mixed with Shane’s bastardized sun salutations. But so just some basic movements kind of to go through everything, try to loosen up my hips and and it’s literally 10 minutes that I do all of

Anna
Nice.

Shane Benedict
in the morning and that if I’m on that routine, I don’t have any problems at

Anna
Hmm, that’s great. Yeah, I think that’s important. What you’re saying is that, you know, 10 minutes a day can really make a difference. Because I think some folks are in our culture. It’s like that all or nothing. If I don’t do an hour of yoga, then it’s not worth it. When really, actually 10 minutes daily or several days a week consistently will do more than like one one hour yoga class potentially. That consistency over time is key.

Shane Benedict
Yeah. But I love kind of like, those of us that are athletes and have, know, we’ve used our bodies our whole life. You kind of connect to what, what ails you. Right. And you it’s fun to just adjust that workout just a little bit, just so it helps maybe a thing that’s a little weak, right. At the moment. And so I don’t stick to the exact same thing, but, pretty nice because the routine fits, fits in my schedule, fits in my morning and it, and and it does the

Anna
Yeah, yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, I wouldn’t be able, I love that we’re going down this road actually, because I think it’s really important, also drinking water is so important to keep our connective tissue hydrated. yeah, now turning, you know, I’ve been in kayaking for 30 years, not as long as you, but for quite a bit, and it’s my job to teach kayaking, so I’m kayaking.

You know, like I just finished five days in a row of teaching kayaking and my routine is definitely yoga every morning and sometimes it’s 10 minutes and sometimes it’s an hour. It just depends on what what’s going on. Also massage once a month, PT once a month just as you know, because interestingly enough, something will come up even if so I just keep that appointment standard and also chiropractic once a month.

Shane Benedict
Wow, fantastic.

Anna
is what I invest in for myself because I’m choosing to do this as my work and taking care of my body is important. yeah, if I didn’t have those standing, if I only waited until something were bothering me, then I would have to wait longer for those appointments. But because I have a standing appointment, whatever comes up can be taken care of. And that really works for me as

Shane Benedict
Yeah. And I, um, I probably should, like, I went, I still go through little phases where I don’t, I don’t do it and I slack off, you know, we all fall off the wagon or whatever it is. Um, but I had a really interesting time in my life. was kind of soon after we started liquid logic and I, know, just like anything I do, I tend to dive in pretty hard and I was working 16 hours a day and doing all that kind of stuff. And my back bothered me a lot. Like I had major problems.

And I was going to the chiropractor really regularly and all that. But that was funny. Finally, the chiropractor said to me, said, Shane, you’re an athlete. Just work out your abs and your core like you’re an athlete. And I hardly ever go back to the chiropractor anymore. I probably needed to go more, but it was, it was pretty nice justification. Nice. Like he was just like, look, take care of yourself and you’ll be fine.

Anna
Right, right. Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, good advice. So when you say that, cause I, you know, when I think of you having paddled with you over the last 20 some years, I think of you as a very confident paddler mindset wise. Is that true? Do you feel that way? Like for yourself? Yeah.

Shane Benedict
It was pretty cool.

100%. Yeah, I think that confidence is, I mean, I feel very confident in my skills.

Anna
Yeah, so how did you develop that confidence or, you know, what is your, like, I love that you just said that, like that, just hearing you say that it’s like, yeah, I want to be like that too, you know? So what, how, yeah, how did you get

Shane Benedict
I, even as a kid there, I had a motor for doing things and doing it and doing it and doing it and putting in lots of time and putting lots of repetition. I also had, you know, one of my early mentors, this woman, Nancy, Nancy Suda, she wouldn’t let me go paddle harder water. She made me paddle the Little Tennessee and the Tuckaseegee Gorge and the Nantahala and I did that for three years before I saw anything harder. Maybe we would go to section three of the Chattogga and that was a big day. But what she did do is say, could go over there and mess around and there’s some cool eddies you can catch and check out why the water’s moving that way. And so she opened me up to this whole idea going and exploring and doing different routes. And she’d have a beginner course and then she’d say, go over there and mess around. I was the kid. All of us that have been instructors, you have the one person that just needs to go do stuff. And you just kind of monitor them while you’re teaching the people that need information. I was that kid that you sent off to go do stuff. And so I just think putting in repetitions. I’ve just put in so many hours and so many minutes that I knew what I could do. That’s the bare base element of my confidence in my paddling is that I know I can put my boat right there. And I can put my bow here and I can have this momentum and I know what that all feels like. And so I feel very confident in my judgment of my abilities as well as my capabilities to fit the situation.

Anna
Yeah, what I hear you say is you practiced a lot of hard moves in easy water for a long time. Yeah, and that built your confidence. And then when you, do you remember like the first times you kind of stepped up to maybe harder white water and what that was like for you?

Shane Benedict
Mm -hmm. Yep. Yep, I did.

Yeah, I have actually a very, very, very distinct moment. Well, to back off, when I first started kayaking, my greatest crazy goal dream of kayaking was to paddle section four of the Shatuga. You know, was the fantasy to end all fantasies that I could go kayak section four. But at one point, I think I was probably or maybe 19. And my brother and I took off for our first time ever, just the two of us. And we both went to go paddle section four of the Chattouga and neither of us had done it before. it was like two feet. So it was this really awesome level and we were nervous at the start. And then we paddled the river and we paddled it beautifully. Like we stuck everything. We had beautiful lines.

I you know, I probably a dry hair day and ran all the rapids that we wanted to run. And then suddenly it was like, we can do this. You know, and it was amazing. After that, I was just like, okay, let’s see what else there is. And so that was a, it was really powerful

Anna
That’s cool. Do you remember what you were telling yourself that day at all? Like in your like mental preparation?

Shane Benedict
I don’t remember specifics, but I think that I do feel like I already had that confidence that I was like, I can do this, but I don’t know. I’ve never tested it. never, you know, like I think we’d run the OkoE quite a few times before that point, but you know, I was, it’s still a slightly unknown.

Anna
Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Benedict
But also, I think the fact that I had it on a pedestal made it more exciting. But I’m pretty sure I came in feeling fairly confident. But then to be affirmed of that was pretty awesome.

Anna
Yeah, I’m reading a book right now that was actually recommended by Holly Gardel, another podcast guest who is a helicopter pilot and it’s called The Confident Mind. And because I do all this work because I need it most for myself. I’m always, it’s like coaching for myself. And, you know, in that book, he really dives into how you’re talking to yourself and how you view yourself is super important. yeah, and what I heard you say at the end of the Shatuga that like boosted and from then on out, you saw yourself as someone with skill and confidence and ready to take the next step even. Yeah, so that’s cool.

Shane Benedict
And what was interesting after that is that I there wasn’t like a next step. was just like anything is possible. Like now it’s just like, all right, let’s just go see what’s out there. And now I feel like I can do this and me and my brother figured this out together and we can go, we can just

Anna
Yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah, very cool. Can you think of any time, because you’re describing yourself as very confident, any time in your life, it could be on the water or off where you really had to kind of confront, maybe, or work through maybe less confidence or something that was really uncomfortable to come out the other side.

feeling more confident.

Shane Benedict (13:31.719)
I mean, it’s something that now getting a little older, I deal with kind of pretty regularly, you know, it’s just that, pushing myself, you know, it’s that, that mix of can I do it? Do I want to do it? Does it matter to me? You know, and, and you go back and forth on all that stuff, you know, it is like, yeah, I can do it. Do it. Do I want to risk?

Scraping my knuckles along the rocks or flipping over or swimming or any of that kind of stuff. But then also the beauty of also being where I am now is I don’t really care if I walk around gorilla. It’s not a big deal. But there is that constant challenge of, I really would like to go run gorilla again or run sunshine again. And it’s been a little while right now. And it’s building. My confidence is building kind of intrigued by that. And so I definitely go through little challenges of, I ready? Do I want it? There’s a lot of questions in there. But I know that if I put in the work, I’ll get there and I’ll decide it’s the right thing or not at the time.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, when you ask yourself, like, do you want it? Like, what are some things that you consider now? Like, what comes into play? Because I feel like for myself too, when I was younger, it was just things that I did. Like, the, you know, I ran gorilla the first time I ever ran the green and it went fine. Now I’m like, eh, it’s not really something that’s important to me. And…

Yeah, and then there’s other things also that may or may not be important, but like keeping up with, you know, paddling Tallulah or class, you know, paddling the green in general, being out there is important to me, right? So keeping up my skills, that is important, but certain rapids are no longer important. So how do you, how do you discern or choose for yourself?

Shane Benedict (15:29.208)
Sure.

well, it’s that whole like, balance of risk versus reward, you know, like I haven’t run go left and years and years and years because I’ve been very fortunate in my paddling career that I’ve only been injured, you know, a handful of times and almost half of them have been at go left. So my risk versus reward, it kind of went, you know, and so I just, yeah, we’re just going to do away with that one.

Anna
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Shane Benedict
So a big part of it is risk versus reward. like, you know, mean, running gorilla is so freaking cool. Like it’s such a great feeling. And it’s also right up my alley and sunshine is as well. Like I love the precision of, you know, running the squirrel in a certain way and catching that little Eddie on River left and booth in the notch and coming into the Eddie under control. Like I’m a control freak when it comes to kayaking. Like I,

Shane Benedict
I want to be putting the boat exactly where I want and feel really good about it. And so I love that. You know, and then coming off the pad and controlling the way the boat’s floating through the air and dropping the bow a little bit. I love, you know, and knowing that the veil is going to come on my head and my eyes are going to be blind for a second, but then I’m going to come out and kind of tilt the boat slightly left if I’m on the wall or, you there’s all those little fun details that are so ingrained in me after running it so much.

I love that feeling, you know, and so I want to revisit it.

Anna
Do you think about that, like all those little things ahead of time? Like, do you ever visualize that or is that something that comes, like, cause when you say you’re a control freak, so how do you prepare for that? Like before you’re running something.

Shane Benedict
Visualizing is like 100%. Like that’s, you know, any rapid or any rapid or any river that I’m going to run, I think about, you know, what that’s going to be like, what are the rapids going to look like. You know, if it’s a new place, I’m just visualizing, what think will be out there and what are the skills that I think I’ll need to deal with. If it’s a, it’s something I know I can visualize the actual places. And then obviously if I’m scouting, like that’s huge. Cause if I can look at it and I can decide, okay, I got that move. I got that move. I got that move. Or that’s a little iffy right there. I’m not sure exactly what’s going to happen, but I think I can deal with it. You know, that makes it so it’s okay. Okay. I’m going to run it. I feel it, you know,

I don’t like that move. I’m not sure I can do that. And then it’s just really easy to go, OK, I’m going to walk that. That’s easy.

Anna
Mm, yeah. How has your view of walking rapids changed from like when you were younger to now?

Shane Benedict
I actually don’t think that it’s changed too much except for I walk a lot more now. You know, like it’s still a can I do the move or not? And if I don’t feel like I can do the move or I’m not sure what’s going to happen, like if I, if the rap is really chaotic and I don’t necessarily see a line through there, you know, I,

Well, and then also what are the consequences? You know, that’s the end result. If I’m going to get pounded, but I’m going to flush out into a pool, that’s a whole different animal versus, you know, there’s more rapids coming up. You know, that changes everything. But

I don’t think that it’s changed. Like it’s whether or not I feel confident that I can run the rapid. You know, and if I can’t, I walk. And I’ve always felt pretty good about that. It’s just that when I was a little younger and a little more gung -ho, I didn’t walk very much.

Anna
And it worked out most of the time, seems like.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did.

Anna
When you, what I’m hearing too, and I think this is important, is you’re confident when you run and then you’re confident with your decision to walk. Throughout your life, go ahead. Well, like throughout your life, have you, it sounds like you don’t have regret. And I think that that’s what gets some boaters is they view walking as like a less than or.

Yeah, a less than or like it’s a failure for some reason. Same thing with like rolling. And I’ve put myself in that category. Sometimes I’ve been way too hard on myself if I miss the line. I mean, you have witnessed this, I’m sure. And so what has you or do you feel, once you decide to walk, are you confident and then put it behind you? Or do you ever have like a, I feel less than or this sucks kind of attitude?

Shane Benedict
I think that sometimes I have a little twinge of that, but I think for the most part, I feel pretty good about it. I think the thing I try to be aware of is, I just writing it off and that I could do it would be more like the regret I might have.

But I feel pretty good about it. Sometimes I wish I’d pushed myself maybe a little bit harder, but I did plenty of that. I did plenty of that back in the day.

Anna
Yeah, yeah. And I think that being able to make a decision for that day and know that it’s not always because you can always make different decisions. Like you’re saying, you haven’t run Gorilla or Go Left or Sunshine in a while. I guess you’ve saying Go Left is a no -go just from injury perspective. like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, that’s been a while. That’s been a long while. Gorilla and Sun Shiner more recently, but…

Anna
Yeah, no, but you know that you’ve decided not to run gorilla and sunshine and now you’re thinking about it again. And I think also, I think for longevity in the sport, I know for myself, there’s been times where I’ve backed off even of class four and I’ve just run a lot of class three or just focused on teaching. And then like this year I’m motivated to do more, know, boating on class four and like getting back on Cascades even this month has been super fun.

And so like if you step away from something, it doesn’t mean it’s forever. And I think sometimes all of us maybe can have that fear that creeps in like, if I don’t keep doing it, then I’ll never do it again, which is not necessarily the case. It does take something. I think it does take more effort to walk away and then come back and it’s totally possible.

Shane Benedict
Totally agreed.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. there was, well, it’s kind of a, it’s sort of a weird analogy, but I was, there was a time period where we went through a pretty heavy drought on the green and we were, the water was getting lower and lower and lower. we were, know, and Andrew and I and some other folks continued to kind of keep running gorilla as it got to be this horrific gnarly hole at the top of the drop. And, we kept doing it and we kept seeing these incremental incremental changes in the rapid, but we kept doing it, kept doing it and it it worked out, you know, we’re we did okay. And now when I look at gorilla at those low levels, I’m just like, good God, get me out of here. You know, but I think that we had sort of trained ourselves and desensitized ourselves. And so that that constantly doing it is always going to be an easier way to continue to do something and to come back to

is definitely a harder mission for

Anna
Yeah, and doable. I think that sometimes it’s good to let ourselves kind of have that time and then decide if we want to come back to it. Maybe. Everyone’s different, so yeah.

Shane Benedict
Yeah. Well, and one of the underlying themes in this exact subject is, what is kayaking? I think that there’s often these words of progression and challenging yourself and doing all this stuff. And kayaking can also just be going kayaking. you

have to be challenging yourself and growing. You can just go kayaking and have a good time. That’s what it is. It’s a really great way to spend a day, and generally you’re spending it with friends.

Anna
I mean, yeah, amazing people. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. It’s just so fun. Yeah. And sometimes like a river like the pigeon, for instance, that’s in our area, you know, I’ll get out there and have so much fun and be like, why don’t I paddle this more often? Like, cause there’s, it’s just pure fun, pure messing around. Yeah. I also think our minds and our nervous systems can use that sometimes. Just to back off a moment. Yeah.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, Sure. That’s why going back to run it a second time is often so fun. know, like when we go up to run the Nolochecki really high and the first time you’re kind of like, can’t remember where all the holes were in high flow. And then the second time you’re like, whee, everything’s fun.

Anna
Yeah, totally,

What, so you’ve paddled a lot, hold on, what am I trying to ask here? Okay, my question is, why do you keep coming back to your discomfort zone? And I just wanna preface with like, yeah, we’ve been talking about kayaking. You also like help start Liquid Logic, you’ve coached athletes, you’ve been a mentor to a lot of folks. And I think that probably, you know, in your life in general, you’ve put yourself in situations that are not easy, that are challenging for you. So what do you learn about yourself? Why do you keep doing

Shane Benedict
I was thinking about this yesterday.

I think that I actually like a little bit of chaos. I like a little bit of craziness. Starting really young, I was teaching at a summer camp and it was back in the 80s and we were 18, 17, 16, 15 year olds taking

14 year olds on all these trips all over the place and driving really junky cars and having to fix the fuel pump and change the tires and you know and and so we had all this chaos going on but we figured it out, know, even though we were just kids taking kids on these adventures We figured it out and that was an incredible feeling of you know, like oh, you know, once again like Pete and my you know story is oh we can do this, you know,

And we were really a band of teenagers led by really amazing mentors, but this band of teenagers that was leading these other teenagers all over the Southeast doing all these adventures and that felt amazing. And then I went to NOC and there became, know, so I worked at that camp for almost 10 years helping start the paddling program and doing all that stuff there, the kayaking program specifically. And then we went to, and then I went to NOC cause I wanted to see what that, that bigger picture was

Back then I called it the Harvard of kayak schools and that I wanted to see what that was. And once again, you know, they sent me off with all these adults, you know, here I was a 20 year old or whatever. And then they sent me off with all these 40 year old people teaching them how to kayak and all. And that felt the same. I was like, wow, all these adults trust me. I guess I got something going on, you know. And that just kept happening, you know, and then.

Shane Benedict
You know, I lucked into an apprenticeship at Perception and they’re like, well, I guess he can design kayaks. And so there I was. I was like, okay, let’s go design kayaks. you know, and then we did this, the adventure quest and just rambling around the country with a bunch of kids. And I don’t know, I just find those places exhilarating and fun. And, you know, now here I am living in a tree house. So there’s that.

Anna
I know that you built yourself with with. Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. It looks super cool.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, Betsy and I keep pecking away at it. One hour and a hundred dollars at a time.

It’s fun. It’s fun.

Anna
Yeah, it sounds like problem solving really boosts your confidence. That’s cool. Yeah.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, it does. Yeah, I do love figuring out problems and trying to sort them

Anna
Yeah, and it has me thinking of, you know, for all of us and anyone listening, that if there’s a problem or challenge in front of you, instead of looking at everything that’s wrong, you know, this what I coach my clients on too, because it can be easy to look at everything that’s wrong or like in the rapid, all the obstacles and kind of get stuck staring at them to, you know, get curious, how could I figure this

Anna
You know, how could I do this thing? How could I work up to this and then orient towards what’s possible versus what’s not possible? And it sounds like you’ve really had great mentors throughout your life and experiences and surround yourself with people where you were orienting to like, what is possible? Like, how can we figure this out? And I can really just hear like the confidence building in you. It’s cool. Yeah.

Shane Benedict
You know, one of the one of the cool things to me is that like one of my first, you know, bucket up mentors was my mom. She would be like, buddy, you got to just figure it out. You know, you get going. The other one she always instilled heavily was.

I don’t care if it’s raining, we’re going and it’s going to be better than sitting around, you know, so let’s go. Let’s figure out how we’re going to have fun, even though it’s really weird weather or whatever it is, or, or maybe, or we don’t have, you know, a sled, but we’ve got a trash bag so we can jump on that and go down the hill on that instead. We’re going to figure something out. It’s going to be fun and we’re going to make it happen.

Anna
Yeah, that’s cool. That sounds fun.

Shane Benedict
Yep. So mom was, you know, mom was a great mentor that really emphasized like, come on, you know, that what’s now a bad phrase is pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You know, mom was my first one to give me that talk. And, you know, and then I, and all through there, you know, Nancy at the mountain, you know, she, she was like, go over there and figure out how to move your boat around. You know, she was a canoer and all we had this one kayak and I was all eaten up with it. So she would just say,

Just go over there. Go figure it out. And then I come into NOC, and my first ACA instructor course, I’m with KB, Mary Deremer, and Carol May, these three super rad ladies who were the epitome of grace in a kayak. And they were just like, you’re doing great. Keep doing your thing. And they just kept pushing me along. It’s fun.

Anna
That’s great. Yeah. Yeah. It’s cool that you had a lot of female mentors in a sport that’s predominantly male, you know, and has been, I think that’s changing. Still, it’s predominantly male. So it’s really cool that you had so many female mentors.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, really lucky.

Yep, big time, really lucky.

Anna
So what is more, I don’t, what is more kind of stressful or uncomfortable for you launching? Okay, now I’m gonna rephrase that question. So I know for myself, when I put projects out, it can be really uncomfortable. So when you put a new boat out that you’ve designed, is that uncomfortable for you?

Shane Benedict
There’s phases of this. So the first phase, coming up with the idea, that’s fun. What would I really, what do I want to kayak? What would be fun for me? Or what would be fun for somebody I know? That’s all fun. And then actually the most uncomfortable part is having a concept and then that first approach to everybody that has to either produce it or sell it or put the money behind it and their evaluation of is this viable? Is this going to work? Are we going to sell enough of them? Does it look stupid? That’s actually my nervy moment is presenting to that group of my little peers in the business. But then once we make the boat, I’m golden.

I feel great. I’m not sure I’ve told everybody this, my favorite moment is the first time I see one in the wild. Like it’s not a friend who has one or it’s not one of the team guys. I’ll see, know, hey, there goes an RMX on a car that I don’t know. That’s awesome. That’s a really fun. That’s a really fun moment for

Anna
Yeah, that must be really satisfying and cool. Yeah, yeah, that is cool.

Shane Benedict
So yeah, it’s not evaluation by my peers in the business. That’s the uncomfortable moment there. But the funny thing is, and I think this is a pretty important thing, is that it’s a stressful moment, but then they may suggest that you need to totally change it or you need any suggestion could come out of it. But then as soon as we leave that meeting, I’m like, okay, I’ve got direction. I’m ready to go. And everything feels great. There’s been a resolution or there’s been a solution, you know, sort of to

Anna
Yeah. You’re so good at looking ahead, like looking forward and not letting things set you back. Or is what I hear anyway in our conversation right now. Do feel like that’s accurate?

Shane Benedict
Yeah, I think maybe I have very, very serious ADD or whatever. That stuff’s behind me. I’m pretty here a lot. I’m pretty focused on being present.

Anna
Yeah. Yeah. And what, do you have any strategies that help you be focused on being present?

Like, is there anything you say to yourself or, I mean, I know we’ve talked about like how you’ve grown your confidence, hard moves in easy water, great mentors, know, figuring things out, problem solving. Is there anything else that comes to mind like now that you practice for being present? Any grounding?

Shane Benedict
I, in general, no. I think that in general, just have to, it’s just all right. Like all I’m thinking about is what’s happening right now. And you know, and my mom would say, you don’t call enough. that’s because I’m right here in my world, right here, that’s around me right now. And I have to really focus to look outside of my world sometimes.

Like the classic example is you can’t see my desk, but I am so visual and so present that everything that I’m working on has to be visible on my desk or I’ll forget about it. know, it’s, cause I’m, it’s all right here. And so it’s really funny. I’ll be working on several projects and my desk is just strewn with stuff of all the different parts of these different projects. And then when I close that

The first thing I have to do is clean my entire desk, get everything off of it and start fresh and new. You know, it’s a funny thing. I’m just really present and I feel really lucky in some ways and I feel challenged in others.

Anna
Sure, because you mean challenged by being so present in your own little world.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, yeah. What I mean is, like, you know, I wish I called my mom more. you know, and then I have to, you know, I have to really make sure that I, you know, text Betsy and, and talk to her and, you know, make just be present there too, you know, not just in my little world. We have that challenge because I don’t know if people know that we, live in separate cities. So our

Our personal life is a little divided at times, for sure. So I have to make sure and reach out and be there, instead of just being in my little world.

Anna
Right, yeah, put it on your calendar.

Shane Benedict (38:00.589)
Yeah.

Anna
What advice do you have for folks out there who are maybe struggling with their confidence? Okay, no, actually I have one more question before we get to that one because you are so confident.

How do you approach folks who aren’t as confident? Like, does that frustrate you when you’re paddling with folks who aren’t that confident? Or you see underperforming?

Shane Benedict
I, when I was younger, I was, I was more impatient with that and, didn’t understand it and didn’t,

Yeah, and thought there was a way to fight through it and do that kind of thing. it came early on is that I really do think that kayaking can just be fun. It doesn’t need to be this life -altering thing that changes everything and you’re evaluated by how you progress through kayaking.

I’ve always been a little challenged by people who think that they have to progress and they have to do all these things. And maybe that it, if that’s what they want, that’s great. And I can facilitate that and I can be a part of that and I’m happy to, but I know later in my teaching career, I’d be somebody that would be so stressed out and I’d be like, do you want to be here? mean, I wouldn’t say that, but that was sort of the…

I’m like, so what do you want to get out of this? That’s the beginning of the day, right? What do you want to get out of today? I want to work on my role, or I want to get better at my role. And you’re like, OK, well, let’s go work on your role. And say, well, don’t know if I really want to get upside down. Just trying to get through, figure out what it is they want out of it. I think having taught for so long, what’s funny is now I’ve had a whatever, almost 30 year career in designing kayaks, I had a 20 year career in teaching kayaking. And so I got to see a fun progression of myself and how I taught. that was a, you know, you see so many people you become, you’re not just teaching them to kayak, right? You’re teaching them about confidence. You’re teaching them about how they’re, they’re thinking, are they thinking positively or negatively or, know, or how they approach problem solving, you know, that’s one of the things you become as you teach longer and longer and you’re exposed to more and more people and more and more experiences. know, and that’s maybe that’s an analogy back to putting in the hours, you you see so many different things, you get to work with them in different ways and you have more background. You know, I always talk about my tool chest. I’ve done a million booths. So my tool chest for booths is pretty good.

You know, same thing for students. You know, I had a whole lot of students, so you get to sort of learn how to work with them in different ways.

Anna
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I asked that question too, because I feel, and I might be projecting, but I definitely feel like there’s times when we’ve paddled together in the past where you’re like, what’s going on with you, Anna? know, like, because I, you know, I do struggle with, you know, like when I was at Cascades the other day, the other week, I was terrified.

And I did want to be there and I asked myself that question. was like, this is ridiculous. Like, why don’t you just walk away? And I was like, no, because I know I can do this. And of course I paddled it and it was great. And it was like, you know, but I had to go through that again to get back up to it. And I don’t, know, probably my, well, I know my upbringing, you know, my experiences, my nervous system, whatever, even though I have so much experience paddling, I still deal with that. And that’s just my process and I know it. So now I try to not, I can say I’m nervous and Andrew scouted with me. it’s funny, cause he’s telling me lines and I’m like, okay, well, I’m gonna choose my own lines. That’s really important to me. I’ve got to work it out myself. Like you said, problem solving. I’m not gonna just listen to what someone says be left here, now I wanna see why I need to be left there and what I’m gonna do and where I’m gonna point my boat. But it is interesting, yeah, different people approach things differently. And by the way, I never thought you were judging me. It was just a, you know, it was always, because every time I’ve paddled with you, and we’ve paddled some fun stuff, like you sent me over that random, I remember paddling, what is the overflow?

And you’re like, go off this drop left and then, you know, whatever that waterfall is, you know, you know, we’ve paddled some really fun stuff. it was just, I can, you know, it is interesting having folks with different mindsets paddling together. And I think that, you know, as we get older, it’s easier to accept that. I think maybe, or like to get used to that. don’t know really what I’m trying to say, but you know,

Shane Benedict
Yeah.

Having I’m not sure I’m not sure of you know, how I presented in whatever situation it was, but I know that Having led a lot of people my my base My base reaction and it’s been taught to me, you know is that We’re gonna go out in the rain and we’re still gonna have fun is like it was a positive bringing a positive attitude bringing, We we you know, we’re gonna figure it out and we’re gonna we’re gonna go we’re gonna have a great day and I’m gonna have a you know, I’m gonna try to exude, you know fun Positive, you know energy because my experiences that has helped I don’t know that that necessarily helps everybody. I think some people might might be if they’re in a in a different space they might be in kind

They could be put off by that possibly if I’m too happy and too excited about something. in general, I’ve felt like leading in a happy, positive way has tended to help people enjoy themselves and get through issues.

Anna
absolutely. Yeah, that’s why I enjoy paddling. I’ve always enjoyed paddling with you for that reason. You know, because even though I’m having a different in my own mind, whatever’s going on, I don’t ever feel judged or like you’re there for the for the team. And, know, because if you because you chose to be there, like also, I know, Andrew, you like I also love our friend group, because if if you’re wanting to go challenge and like do like super fast lap or whatever, then you’re gonna go with people who want to also do that. And if you’re choosing to paddle with the people you’re paddling with, then you’re there with the people you’re paddling with.

Shane Benedict
Yeah. Yeah, that’s a really big one is that recognition of your crew and being open and aware of that. I was trying to think of comfort zones and discomfort zones. one of my comfort zones is going on a river trip and everybody looks back when you’re going down the rapid. So you always feel that support and that confidence.

Always look back everybody, always look back.

Anna
That’s right, it’s important, yeah. Do you have any questions for me or a question for

Shane Benedict
Yeah, I do. have a question. And it kind of, I brought up pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and that, you know, toughen up kind of thing. you know,

Like, where do you see that fitting? Or how does it fit in our current? Now that we know more things and we’re more aware of difficulties or damages of pushing people, where does that fit? how does it, or is there a way to use it? Because it was so valuable for me.

It really made me go, you know, I’m a different type of person. I understand that. But what I wonder is how does that fit in today’s, you know, environment, I guess. And you have any thoughts on

Anna
Yeah, well, actually, some listeners will like I interviewed my dad on this podcast and he was very much a, you know, like he pushed me like I was like, I don’t want to I don’t want to be in ski racing. No one’s going to like me. It’s going to be hard. And he’s like, you’re going and he just dropped me off. Like he did that like for several things. And in that episode, I was saying how important that has been for me in even being able to like do what I do. And I, with my clients, you know, I often tell my clients like, hired me to help you grow and growth is uncomfortable. And so I very much am, you know, some, I think folks have had actually

Some folks who’ve been in the industry a long time who haven’t actually been around my programs have a view of me as like I’m some like super soft or something. And my clients know that I’m definitely not. But what I think I do well is I push when I feel like there’s an opening to push and then I back off when there’s like it’s

I have an awareness of when it’s too much. And it’s that flow kind of like we talked about earlier in the conversation that you can step quote unquote back, which is probably not the best way to phrase it, you can, you don’t have to keep pushing, right? And there are times when like if you wanna be a better kayaker, you have to get used to swimming.

You have to practice your role if you want to get your role. Like you have to be okay going upside down and you have to be okay with quote unquote failure, you know, and because you’re not going to get your role every time and we’re all in between swims and you’re not going to hit every line every time. And so I think that that’s part of the discomfort. So I think there is definitely a place for it. I think

Again, I think in the past, especially, well, in kayak construction and when I was coming up, it was like you had to be a certain way or you were wrong and you shouldn’t be a kayaker. Like, you know, I remember being told like when I was paddling with really great folks out in California, like really, you know, if you’re not at the bottom of the rapid by the time we get down you’re holding us back, you know, like that’s not team playing. You know what I mean? That’s like, you better conform to how we do it. And I think that that got collapsed with push, like that that was the only way to push or to get better was to be a certain way. Or I can remember like, you know, going over spirit and I lost my paddle at the bottom and I hand rolled and I was so pumped and I got my paddle back.

And there are a couple again, pro boaters at the time there. And I was like, woohoo, did you see that? And they were so unimpressed. And I totally felt judged because I had lost my paddle. You know what I mean? Versus the, wow, you just did a a crux hand roll and got your paddle back. You responded, right? And so I feel like we do have to be self -determined and face difficulty and sometimes it sucks and even face our own mindset of like, wow, I was making up a huge story about that. That was completely untrue. If I stick to the facts, it’s this and I watch sometimes my clients when they are discovering that they actually get really pissed. And I understand they’re not pissed at me. I mean, maybe they are a little bit cause I’m not one who pointed it out, but it’s confronting.

But then they’re in a super supportive environment there. I’m there for them versus, know, well, you got to keep pushing. And if you, if you’re swimming or whatever, you’re not good enough. Or if you can’t decide just like I can in the amount of time I need you to, to decide whether you’re running a rapid or not, then you’re wrong.

Shane Benedict
Yeah. Yeah, that I, there’s no doubt in that, that environment where we were, there was a lot of people pushing really hard and for, for different reasons. And there was some misguided ego and there was a lot of stuff going on. There was a lot of stuff going on that, you know, the key, you know, the best part now as we’re older, you know, the best part is the crew you’re with and, the support you receive you know, sitting there and going, nice, squared or splat or a good job, you know, and or laughing as you get tangled up in a tree limb, you know, with your paddle stuck up there, you’re like, dang it. And laughing together, you know, that’s the that’s the that’s the juice of the of the day now, you know, not not running the hardest thing necessarily.

Anna
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. And I think as we’re encouraging more folks and different folks to get into the sport is being able to, yeah, understand. I think what I’m all about is having people show up as they are and working with that. That doesn’t mean I let them off the hook. If they say they want to progress, then well, this is what it takes to progress then if you decide, well, that’s not really for me, that’s fine, right? But you can’t really get around what is needed to progress. But it doesn’t have to happen in a certain timeline or look a certain way for everyone. It can be different. Same thing, I just sized up my creek boat to a medium code. I’ve been piling a small code and man, I love it.

But for some reason there was an ego there of like, it’s so big, it’s, you know, but I like the small rewind and I like the small Nova, like the Nova. Cause I love it in those environments, the rivers I’m paddling there, I want to squirt and do tricks. and so I also think like giving people space to like, it’s okay to have a big Creek boat. I don’t have to paddle the green and a half slice if I don’t want to, even at low levels, like if I’m out there having fun, yay. And I don’t feel like my crew is judging me because I’m not out there squirting, you

Shane Benedict
That’s right. That’s right.

Anna
And last thing I’ll say about this is, you know, I never hear you or Andrew or Polk or Buffy or any of the like high level been doing it all in time. I never hear the word green light out of any of you. And I think that that’s like just for our own community. Like I’ve heard stories of people who’ve done

Shane Benedict
Ha

Anna
you know, first ascents of the green and like the first questions people ask them is like, well, what did you walk or did you do green light or did you do the green? It’s like, wow, you know, it’s just the green.

Shane Benedict
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah. It’s just the green.

Anna
Anyway, okay. I’m ready for some rapid fire quick rapid fire.

Shane Benedict
Yes, yeah, yeah for

Anna
Okay, so designed to like be one word, couple word answers. What is a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Shane Benedict
We talked about it a little bit, but it’s doing my core exercises and my sports center sun salutations. Just loosens me

Anna
Nice. Awesome.

What’s a non -negotiable self -care practice?

Shane Benedict
Drink water.

Anna
Favorite motivational book or talk?

Shane Benedict
I have to go a little long. I don’t have a favorite motivational talk or book, but I have many mentors that have told me to, you know, helped me figure out a positive attitude and a figure it out mentality.

Anna
Love it. What do people get wrong about you?

Shane Benedict
What do people get wrong? I have no idea. I was probably about this close to living an urban coaching life in volleyball. My best buddy from college, he’s still coaching volleyball to this day. And that could have very easily been my direction.

Anna
wow. I had no idea.

Wow, whole different life. Throughout the course of your life, have you been considered or considered yourself the underdog or the favored to win?

Shane Benedict
Underdog.

Anna
That’s so interesting, because you’re so confident.

Shane Benedict
Well, I do we have time to expand just slightly?

Anna
Yeah, yeah, please, because I’m really shocked by that answer.

Shane Benedict
I, well, another thing that a lot of people might not know is that I grew up in a commune and, it was actually, it was, yeah, so there’s like six families living in a house together, sharing a lot of stuff and, and we were super duper hippies and, you know, a fancy dress up for me was a turtleneck. You know, I didn’t never had a suit or any button down shirt or any of that stuff. And so in

early days of going to elementary school, was the, you know, I was a dirty hippie kid. And so I got, I got a lot of that. and you lived, you live in the commune and people’s parents wouldn’t let their kids come to our house and you know, all that. It was, it was a weird, weird moment. And so I, I didn’t necessarily pick up sports to, to, you know, destroy them, but I, but I dove into sports.

Anna
interesting.

Shane Benedict
wholeheartedly and my favorite thing was beating all those people in sports and I played all the sports and I played all the stuff and I’ve made myself the underdog that I was going to I’m gonna I’m gonna beat them no matter what it takes I’m gonna work really hard at it and I’m gonna figure it out and I’m gonna win and so I would I would use that as my my thing I’m the underdog I’m gonna come get

Anna
as fuel. Yeah, that’s really interesting. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Do you think that is fuel to you still to this day?

Shane Benedict
No, I mean, I think that changed a lot. But that’s what gave me the drive. I feel like it was one of the things that gave me the drive to go throw the baseball for another hour or to go shoot more three point shots, shoot more free throws or go do, I’d teach all day and then go do enders at the falls and catch all the eddies backwards.

Just go do it again and again and again and try to get better and better and better at whatever I was trying to do.

Anna
Yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, thanks.

Shane Benedict
That’s what it gave me. And then that just flourished into a little bit of a practice. I wouldn’t say I was ever very organized about it, but I put in a lot of work.

Anna
Yeah, a lot of time. Okay, what’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Shane Benedict
Water. love, Betsy tells me occasionally, go get watered. You need to be watered. I feel so comfortable and happy when I’m in the water or paddling or just floating around in it or, know, it’s, I, early on in my, just in my life, I, you know, somebody noticed that I really liked being in the water and they told you about the whole negative ions in water and how they can affect your, you know, serotonin levels and happiness and all that. And I took it to heart and it was already there. I already loved being in the water, but to this day it’s, I’m pretty happy when I’m in the water. And if I haven’t been in the water in a little while, Betsy will tell me to go get watered.

Anna
That’s awesome. Yeah, there’s quite a bit of science that shows that what water does to our nervous system and brain, it’s really healthy.

Shane Benedict
Yeah.

Anna
You already answered this and I think you might have a slightly different answer but hard moves in easy water or flooding.

Shane Benedict
flooding because I’ve done all the work, you know, and less so now. I’m still nervous. go up there to the Nolochuky Highwater and I’m like kind of nervous. I’m like, ah, whereas 10, 15 years ago, I’d be like, hell yeah, let’s go. And I like to roll with it and getting out

Anna
I know, right? So that’s so funny. Right.

Shane Benedict
you know, whatever, let’s go. It used to be a thing. I was always the one that caught the lowest, Eddie, before the next rapid, you know, and not always the best thing, but we had a small paddling crew that we paddled together. And it was actually the first crew that I went and started exploring the green with. And we gave ourselves all nicknames and my nickname was Probe.

Anna
That’s awesome.

Yeah, awesome. That’s funny. I find it interesting. I think like our conversation really shows like how it’s I asked the question like it’s an either or, you know, I think just what the preference is, really it’s the hard moves and easy water, just like you said, so you can be cool with the flooding, you know, and have fun. Probe.

Shane Benedict
send Shane, he’ll do it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think

Anna
Okay, freedom through discipline or do what I want. Okay. And what’s one word that you hope or in one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Shane Benedict
I do what I want.

Legacy is a trigger word for me. And so what I will say is I think that what you mean is how would you like to be remembered?

And I think that it’s just fun to be on the water with.

Anna
Mmm. Yeah, fun.

You’re on your way with that one. Is there anything else you’d like to tell listeners?

Shane Benedict
Hmm. I don’t think so. Think we’ve covered quite a bit.

Anna
Yeah, well thanks so much for taking the time Shane. I really appreciate you. I appreciate who you are in my life and over, you know, I’m so grateful that I’ve gotten to paddle with you and I keep getting to paddle with you and hang out. So yeah, thanks for taking the time to chat today.

Shane Benedict
My pleasure and thanks for having me.