Anna
When Dave Fusilli’s parents taught him to paddle at the age of seven, he was actually pretty scared of it. And it wasn’t until he turned 18 that he really caught the whitewater bug. And it’s been running his life ever since. Dave heads up the West Coast sales, distribution and marketing for Piranha Kayaks and is a longtime IR athlete who contributes to research and development and marketing. He’s probably most famous for being one of the founders of DemShizts and the Brown Claw. If you know, you know. And if you don’t know, you’ll find out. What he loves most about kayaking is being outside in some of the most beautiful places on the planet that provide him with focus and connectivity. He lives near the White Salmon River in Washington. Dave, thanks for being here.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, thanks for the invite, Anna. Appreciate it. It’s good to see you.

Anna
Yeah, you too. And congratulations for your on your new limited edition Astral PFD that just came out last week. It’s beautiful.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, yeah, thank you. is cool. It’s kind of a kind of a long haul. were like working on it in the in the winter time we started, you know, throwing ideas out there and my was really cool because my friend Meg Smith I’ve known for pretty much when I started rafting like 2002 in Pennsylvania. And so she’s known me for pretty much my entire evolution, I guess as a paddler. So she’s seen me as broke, graph guy Dave and then a little less broke graph that guy Dave and Dave traveling around the Pyranha van and yeah so anyway she’s she’s seen the whole evolution way which I think helped the project kind of and her and I connect and I feel like that’s why it ended up so cool but I loved Meg’s art and yeah and yeah good friend and yeah I’m just so excited how it turned out. is beautiful. I don’t even want to wear it. just want to hang it up and put it in a frame or something. But I have to wear it.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, it’s super cool. And I love Meg’s art as well. She actually designed, she actually did a t-shirt design for Women’s Paddle Fest one year. And we have a piece of her art in our house and I love it. So cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Fusilli
That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s beautiful. She does amazing work. But yeah, thank you. It’s special. I’m grateful and honored to have put that together and it turned out so damn well. Yeah.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, I saw someone on the Nantahala with it just the other just two days ago and they were so excited. So yeah, it’s cool.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, I’ve had people message me. I think I’m going to like, I don’t know, do like some kind of a contest on my Instagram and maybe just pick the best photo of it and I don’t know what, figure out something to send them or give them to be fun. Just to see what kind of images come back to me that’d be really cool.

Anna
Yeah, right on. To get into the conversation, what does your discomfort zone look like?

Dave Fusilli
What does my discomfort zone look like? Well.

Anna
Yeah, what does that mean to you?

Dave Fusilli
Well, I think… I mean…

In my mind, and I think in most people’s mind that are maybe good kayakers or good athletes in general, think you just know that the best growth comes from being uncomfortable. So for me, I guess that looks like scouting a rapid, deeply trying to make a decision whether to run it or not. It could also be, you know, I’d like to go to the gym and push, push heavy weights around, try to keep my body intact. So, you know, that’s one thing that’s always in my mind there too. It’s like, if I’m not pushing to the, like me personally, if I don’t push to the very last rep and just try to force that thing through, I’m not really progressing the way I want to.

Also, it could be getting in front of a crowd and maybe trying to talk about something, know, that can give me a little anxiety too and just kind of like pushing through and trying to be confident. But I think the first thing that comes to my mind though would be like scouting something and trying to make that decision and trying to make a smart decision. know, usually if I’m scouting it, it’s not all the time, but sometimes it’s really…

can be consequential and yeah, just kind of like focusing on what to do next. Yeah. I don’t know. You’re kind of in your own head. I mean, you’re living in your own head at that point for sure.

Anna
Yeah, and I think that’s the challenge is and part of the point of this podcast, what I love so much is to hear different people’s processes and what is going on for them because I think then it normalizes it because I think sometimes when we’re not feeling confident or when we’re trying to make a decision that is consequential, sometimes we can feel like we’re the only ones that feel a certain way or that are approaching it a certain way or who get uncomfortable in a certain way. But the more that we talk about it, the more we realize like, yeah, everyone, you know, goes through some type of discomfort. So for you, when you are, when you find yourself in your own head, what are your strategies for making the right decision for you?

Dave Fusilli
I would say when I decide to go, have like, let’s just compare it to a rapid cause it’s kind of the easiest thing, right? For me to kind of think about or compare to, but it’s really, it’s really, it’s really interesting to try to think about like, do you decide to say yes? And like, I don’t even, I don’t even really know when that is, but I definitely know that it is after a long time of really breaking down that situation.

And in thinking to myself, can I make that move? Is that stroke there? Is the boat angle going to work on that feature? And then when I decide that that is all good to go. And like, again, it’s hard to really know when that, you know, it could be a day to day situation too. Like someday, that rapid may look better than, the day before, you know, you just, every day, feel like, you know, generally we all feel a little bit different.

You could just wake up feeling a little more energetic. You could just wake up feeling a little more down, you know, a little bit slower. So that all plays into the final decision. But in the end, if I am feeling it that day, maybe it’s the sun shining. Maybe it’s raining and it’s cold and it’s slippery. Maybe I’m cold then. Maybe was like, maybe I’m hungry.

You know, I think that all those things are factors to whether I’m going to go. And then when I am going to, when I have decided to go, then, then it switches gears a little bit. Then it’s just focusing entirely on the moves that I have to make. But also like if it’s a big waterfall that that one really, every time I’m running a big waterfall, usually I sit down on my butt, I’m a little anxious for sure. My heart rate is up a little bit. You know, I could be like a little bit shaky, you know, might not feel like my muscles are working quite as well. And I will just sit there, close my eyes, probably put my head down and just take deep breaths. Like I do yoga. I tried it. I don’t do it enough, but I try to do yoga a couple of times a week just in the morning to wake up. that surely keeps my body better.

I think more just as much. It’s definitely mental for me. It just kind of like can put me in a space and I can, can, the easier I can get to that space, the easier, the quicker I can call myself down above a rapid. So most times I’ll be taking just kind of deep, slow breaths until I feel my body just kind of like absolutely relax. And then if all goes well, it can be slow motion. You know, I’ve definitely had a couple of waterfalls, one in particular, which is

The waterfall that’s on the back of that life jacket, Toketee Falls, it’s one of my favorites that I’ve run. But that one, you know, I got pretty nervous, pretty big drop and I just got myself calmed down so much. And I was thinking about the waterfall, Toketee means graceful. I don’t remember the language that it’s from, but I was thinking that a lot. like graceful, graceful, graceful and like calming myself down. And as I peeled out of the waterfall, I literally

Remember seeing droplets in my, you know, in my vision, just like slowly falling with me and then like impact and just hand roll. And it was just like one of the most magical waterfalls moments or rapids that I’ve ever, ever run. I don’t know. That was probably like 10 or 11 years ago, but it still sticks in my brain. Like it was yesterday. but I think that’s kind of the power of your mind. And if you can like really kind of slow yourself down, but I think breathing is huge.

Anna
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I was really into your story of the waterfall. There’s several, several things that, okay, one, I love how you touched on all the different factors that can affect our mindset, like our weather, you know, how confident we feel. I’m a big proponent of that in my work, like with clients of It’s hard to show up feeling confident if you haven’t slept or if you are eating like crap or if your body feels super tight because you haven’t been stretching or what, there are many factors and having the self-awareness to kind of know and recognize that. Can you hear me?

Yeah, yeah. And so I like that you brought attention to that because I think, yeah, if when it is cloudy and rainy, I feel a lot less sometimes joyful. I mean, I love kayaking in the rain too, but it can affect your mindset. So I appreciate that you mentioned that. And I also appreciate that you, to me, what I heard in your waterfall story was like a connectivity with the place and the water and not just of what it means to you, but what it has meant to people who came before. And that you really presence that with, you know, the grace, graceful and brought that to the forefront. I just think that’s really beautiful. And, you know, sometimes in it folks can kayaking is super fun. can also be a spiritual practice of sorts. And by that, doesn’t mean that you have to be like super woo woo. It just means, you know, yeah, a connection to something greater than yourself. So I appreciate that as well.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, no, I definitely feel that on the water like more and more more as time goes by. I’ve said this a lot or maybe I said this a lot, but I’ve said this before. You know, I think of kayaking is like, for one, we are like, I don’t know, 70 plus percent water, our bodies in general, and we are out there.

Like in my mind, dancing with one of the most powerful elements on the planet. And there, you know, I think a lot of us, yeah, just have this wild experience on the water that you’re just driven to. It’s like, you know, it’s definitely an addiction, but it’s something I think it’s something more that we don’t quite understand, you know, dancing with an element that we’re a lot majorly made out of.

I think brings you to some other kind of place. And I also, in another kind of comparison that’s similar, you know, we have Toketee, for example, there’s a huge, you know, you know, walkway to a nice overlook where you can, you know, people just don’t kayak, mostly don’t kayak. They literally just come and stare at that feature because it is so, you know, humans are drawn to this naturally. And to take it to another level as a kayaker, these people are coming just to look at this absolutely stunning waterfall and stare at it, take photos of it, just sit there, maybe close their eyes, hang out. And for a kayaker, you get to do that, but then you also get to put into that flow and you get to ride the art. You get to go down that amazing feature. I don’t know, it’s…

It’s definitely something special. And the more I get older, the more I think about it, the more I have conversations with people about it as to why kayakers are the way they are. I had a friend recently who he does interviews with, with a lot of athletes, sports athletes, know, big athletes, NBA, NFL. And he is like, why is it that hardcore kayakers are the best goddamn humans on the planet?

From his perspective, interviewing a lot of athletes. He’s like the most humble, the most beautiful individuals that I ever run into by far. And so this kind of, this was like a week ago. And so this kind of got me thinking as well. the perspective is, it’s interesting. And I told him that. was like, I think that there’s two things. I think you’re connected to water. You’re dancing with this very powerful element. And a lot of us, especially on the high end of paddling, I’ve had our asses kicked before, or maybe multiple times, and have had friends pass away or have had near death experiences themselves, which creates maybe something special in a person. It makes you obviously very humble, respectful, and maybe spiritual, but it’s pretty amazing. I don’t know. I’m just grateful, yeah.

Anna
Yeah.

I love to hear your thoughts on that or your perspective. And I agree, think, you’re constantly connected to nature and connected to something that is so much more, or an element, I should say, that’s so much more powerful than you. And you know that all you can do is try and control your

boat angle, position, momentum, vision, all of that, but you can’t ever control the flow. I used to, back in the day when in the 90s, and I’m glad that this language is starting to, I don’t hear it as much, it’d be like conquer the river. I think across all outdoor sports, it’d be like conquer the mountain, conquer the river. And I see it, it’s…

I think my strategy has always been to create a relationship with the water, right? Like that’s where the connectivity and also understanding comes from and where you can, you know, even if you’re not running a waterfall or something really hard, just front surfing, you know, like there’s some of like,

Dave Fusilli
Totally. Yeah.

Anna
I’ve just had some amazing experiences getting on a wave and just front surfing and watching the water go by me and connecting and then being able to feel like the edging and like the what when I put my edge in. So anyway, yeah, it’s just really beautiful and fun.

Dave Fusilli
Totally.

Yeah, it is. It is. I really think of it like a dance. You’re not controlling. You’re working with it. And there’s no other sport that you do that in that same way. mean, maybe surfing is probably the closest thing, but it also doesn’t have that technicality of river running. But yeah, that’s whatever level you’re at. The hardest thing you’ve done is the hardest thing you’ve done. The hardest…

The worst thing that’s happened to you is the worst thing that’s happened to you, you know, it’s like all perspective.

Anna
Yeah.

Do you practice, because you mentioned breathing is really important. Have you gone to breath work classes or are you tuning into your own just like deep breathing, like belly breathing in and out?

Dave Fusilli
Typically, it’s just a yoga practice, like yoga in the morning for me. I’ll do like just a short class, 15 to 20 minutes, just to like kind of wake up and get myself going. And if there’s anything I slack on, it’s this. But I try to do it least a couple times a week, but at least it’s a reminder to, you know, just to like, for those, you know, it could be, it doesn’t have to be on the river either, but for those kind of discomfort, those uncomfortable moments you know, that you need to kind of relax yourself and focus. And, know, I was just, I was just over it. I have, I have taken a breath of work class with my buddy Adam once. And it was pretty interesting and almost, you know, gets you to almost a psychedelic state, which is really cool because I feel like that’s also a way that you can kind of work outside your mind and kind of know, psychedelics can put you in a strange headspace sometimes, and sometimes you have to work through that, which is kind of a, mean, you do whatever you want to do, but I think it’s kind of good for people to do that sometimes. And I think it always gives you a different perspective and always gives you a different way to look at things. Yeah, it’s kind of, it’s interesting though.

Anna
Yeah, well, from the yogic perspective, from what my understanding of my studies of yoga and Ayurveda, you know, those are two of the most powerful forces. So you have water and then you have breath and breath is, you know, life force and learning how to navigate the breath. They say control the breath because we do have that opportunity as humans in our bodies to do different breath control.

But when the two are combined, so like for instance, a waterfall, like it’s aerated at the bottom. So that mixture of air and water is really powerful. And some say that’s why people really love to go visit waterfalls or be around moving water and whitewater. You have two very powerful elements, the breath, life force and water combining. So yeah, there is, I believe that there’s definitely something to that. Yeah.

Dave Fusilli
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I like that.

Yeah, I think so. think there’s a huge, I think there’s a big connectivity with all of us and everything that we don’t have figured out. I really believe that. it’s like, I was just talking about this yesterday, I think with someone, I forget what my example was, but it was just, and we’ve all had this happen. You think of someone and then all of a sudden you get a text message from them or they call.

or know, those things happen all the time. Maybe they’re coincidence, maybe they’re not, but I think they’re not. And I think that it’s something that hopefully, I don’t know, like as human beings, especially our country right now, the connectivity is piss poor, but hopefully we can get through this and beyond it and figure it out. But it’s so interesting. one of my friends was telling me maybe I don’t, I mean,

I haven’t heard of this. Who knows if it’s true. He said there’s studies where they have taken a newborn baby, basically separated from the mother and taking it. don’t know. Another room mile a mile away, whatever it may be. And like agitated the baby to like make it angry or whatever. And the mother’s heart rate goes up or calms the baby down and makes it happy. And her serotonin spikes and stuff. Have you heard of that?

Anna
I haven’t heard of that exact study, I have heard of similar, I haven’t heard of that exact study, but I’ve done some reading on some different fields of energy and such,

Dave Fusilli
Have you heard of that?

Yeah, that’s so wild. That’s proof to me. Yeah.

Anna
It is wild. So what’s coming up for me right now, which is really cool. I think, and I’ve, I’ve always, we’ve known each other for a long time. We haven’t like connected more recently, but

Like the way you’re, anyone listening to this conversation realizes or can hear that you’re a very thoughtful and reflective and even spiritual person. And then there’s the whole, okay, so then there’s the whole Demshitz thing, right? Which is like, I say this and I’m not, okay, I don’t mean to say that they’re in opposition.

Dave Fusilli
Totally. Yeah.

Anna
But sometimes I sometimes I was like, my discomfort zone is when someone gives me throws me the brown claw because I’m like, because sometimes it’s so it’s so like, like rad dude, like bro. And sometimes I like wave back like to be really geeky, know, like, hi. And because I’ve known you for so long and and so do you want it because it has become it was kind of

Dave Fusilli
Hahaha

Yeah.

my understanding of being around you all back then, it was like a joke, right? It was funny. And it is amazing that it is now like such a symbol, people love it connection, right? Right? Yeah, okay. I love that you say that. Cause sometimes I’m like, I’m not giving you the brown claw back because I’m not gonna be a bro. I need therapy around the brown claw, Dave.

Dave Fusilli
Connection. It’s connectivity, yeah.

I got you. Yeah, I think.

I think it’s, well, it’s amazing. mean, what it has become is kind of insane. I mean, it was definitely us messing around and then we just started doing it out the windows of stuff to people, right? And then all the, like now it’s worldwide. Everyone, every kayaker in the world knows what the brown claw is. but yeah, it is. It’s a good, it’s a good connection. It’s, you know, it’s like, Hey, I’m a kayaker. You’re a kayaker. What’s up? How we doing out there? You know,

Anna
Yeah.

It is.

Dave Fusilli
it’s fun. And I think like, I think, I think Demshitz

It is also, I think we were able to, Jared, Graham, myself, Craig, Mike, you know, there was a couple iterations of the van, but I think that we were able to connect. And I think this also is why the brown cloth spread as it did. I think we were able to connect and like spread the love basically better than any other crew because we were basically entirely ourselves. Sometimes that’s a little rowdy.

You know, sometimes we’re throwing down kind of hard, but we were entirely ourselves no bullshit and like extremely approachable and just really so happy to be on the road and meeting people and getting on the water and I think it was just contagious and I think it was obvious and I think that like you want to talk about like a connection like I feel like people felt that through us like these dudes are real dudes they’re like

Anna
Hahaha!

Dave Fusilli
You know, we eventually became like more higher profile, but obviously when we started, no one knew us. and we were just, you know, good characters that no one knew. And, I think that, yeah, I think we just honestly just like, yeah, like I think we did connect with people better than anyone. And like, it’s still, you know, the logo just went on the life jacket, like a month ago. but.

Yeah, it is interesting, but it’s also the same. I see it as very, very similar, you know, as a connection with a lot of kayakers and letting anyone come, anyone paddle with us. Sometimes that was to a fault, we’d get in trouble sometimes, but we really just wanted everyone to be involved and like, just wanted everyone, we want to be non-exclusive, just like, let’s go have fun together and if we can help you out, that’d be cool. If not, let’s just go shred down the river.

Have a great time. then, yeah, and then I think through that, the brown cloth just kind of spread beyond my even, it’s crazy, but every kayaker knows of it. It’s crazy.

Anna
Yeah, it’s a really cool legacy and I, yeah. When I hear you talk.

Dave Fusilli
It’s straight from just having fun though.

Anna
Right, right, well, exactly. And that’s why sometimes, and this is my own stuff that I need to like work out, obviously. Sometimes I feel like folks have taken it to mean this like super gnar, like more exclusive thing, but I think that’s probably just me projecting. And I’m very aware, everyone listening, that I have my own shit, so okay. So I’m just being real with what comes up for me. And so…

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Anna
Because I’ve known y’all and I know that that’s your jam, right? To be so real and inclusive and yeah, that it is meant as a like connectivity thing. So that’s cool.

Dave Fusilli
I think too what’s cool about it is I think part of Demshitz in general was just like not taking yourself too seriously. It’s because we’re out here having a good time and who knows how long we’re out here. I think the Brown Claw is kind of part of that too. It’s just like, yeah, a lot of it started really getting popular when we were competing and we were just getting our asses kicked by the Jacksons all the time. So we’re like, can we get points for doing this?

You know, so we would like put our hand up in the air and do a front flip. And you know, we’re just like, well, we’re here. Let’s have fun. And let’s not, you know, let’s, you know, you shouldn’t take life too seriously. mean, there’s times, but we are just ripping around in this rock.

You haven’t had your ass kicked on the river yet hard enough because your ego has not been squeezed out of your body. Which if you kayak long enough, it will happen. But yeah, in general, it’s just, yeah, with the Jackson, the Jackson’s were kicking our asses all the time in the freestyle competitions and we were just like, well, let’s have some fun with this. we get points for the brown claw? And I think that’s honestly where it started to spread. They started announcing it.

There’s Demshitz with the Browns. I still remember hearing Dan Gavere yelling that. So funny. Though here comes the Browns. He’d call it out. And then we started doing it off waterfalls and stuff. And rail grabs were a thing. Clay Wright was doing that back in the day. That’s kind of our rail grab, guess, too, off of drops. But yeah. Yeah.

Anna
Yeah, no, that’s awesome. So funny. And you’re right. And I think that’s, I mean, that’s what I’m hearing for myself in this conversation is I probably take myself too seriously. Like I definitely have that, you know, tendency sometimes. So now when I see the brown claw.

Well, but now when I see the brown claw, I’m going to remember this conversation. Be like, Anna, don’t take yourself too seriously. Maybe I’ll surprise Andrew by throwing one back because he’s always like, what?

Dave Fusilli
Perfect.

And maybe more people will not take themselves that seriously that day, and that would be a good thing.

Anna
Right? Right? Right? Yeah. that’s great.

Dave Fusilli
Life’s a trip.

Anna (
To shift gears, life is a trip for sure. And it’s a trip to be in the industry, you know, like for so long and to see all of us do different things. I think it’s awesome. And to see what sticks and what doesn’t and yeah, it’s pretty cool.

Dave Fusilli
It is interesting.

yeah, yeah. yeah, it’s interesting what sticks and like, I do think that, yeah, think that meeting so many people for us is why, I guess why Dem Schitts is still a thing, which is like, I mean, that sticker went on the side of the Pyranha van in 2007. This is almost 20 years.

The Brown Claws, probably 2008, you know.

It’s cool.

Anna
So what is the, I don’t know if I’ll keep this in, but what is the, what is the brown claw? Like, what does it mean? Cause people get, get confused. Like what was the genesis of it? Like the actual, okay.

Dave Fusilli
Well, it started from Borat.

Borat. This can kind of wrap around too a little bit. exactly what happened. So when we were in the Piranha Van, Jared Graham and myself, I think like the only, we had a DVD of Borat. I think that was like the only movie we had in the Piranha Van. And so we were driving for months and months and months. We were on the road for like six to eight months. And pretty much the only thing we watched was Borat.

The first Borat, it was so fun. I mean, it’s still so funny. Hilarious. We’ve watched it a million times. But anyway, some point he’s like in this interview and he’s like, where do I make the shit? I have to take a shit. Where do I put the brown, the shit, the brown? And he does that. And signal in Borat. And Graham must, usually, this is usually these things.

really stem from Graham. He’s like one of the most creative people I’ve ever met. But I would assume Graham got linked onto that and started doing the Brown. And then we started calling like hard white water the Brown because it was like the hard, the shit, the hard path, you know, the hard white water, shit, the Brown. So we started doing that. then it kind of then people, yeah. And then it’s turned into a wave and a, you know, all that. But that’s Borat. Borat. Yeah, for sure.

Anna
Sweet. Good. Now you know. Now everyone, you know the Genesis.

Dave Fusilli
The Brown.

Dave Fusilli
Now, know, these are the facts, folks. All good things come from complete nonsense.

Anna
Yeah, and I so appreciate that because then I can remember not to take myself so seriously. Yes. It is. Okay, so actually I do want to shift gears to something a little more serious and you can answer this or not.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, it might spread throughout the world.

Anna
I know you just, we all just lost Bren Orton, really amazing person. And I would imagine that was a huge discomfort zone. I mean, I know it was for the community. You were really close to him. How, if you’re willing to share, how have you been navigating that?

Dave Fusilli
I will try my best to share. I might fall apart, but I’ll try not to. It’s been, yeah, it’s been hard to navigate. You know, the first, I don’t know, know, Bren was like a little brother to me. Bren and I had this like crazy connection that I don’t quite understand, but it makes me become more spiritual in a way that his passing has.

Anna
It’s okay.

Dave Fusilli
He, yeah, it was just, it was crazy to see the evolution of Bren, but I knew it was gonna happen. I could just see it in him. But yeah, and I was always afraid. I was always afraid of that phone call, you know, about Bren. know, Bren was pushing it really hard and had some close calls, one of them with me. But I just like kind of thought that he had,

And he did his skills caught up to his ability to just charge into stuff. And I thought that he got there. But then I got a phone call, and it was Dane. And he’s like, are you alone? And I was like, god, this is it. Here we are. This is the phone call. I was like, fuck. But yeah, so then basically, I pretty much went into a hole for a month, drank too much.

pretty much couldn’t focus. Like I honestly don’t even really remember that month. It wasn’t all from alcohol. It like a lot of it was just me not being able to just like honestly just not get them out of my mind. It was just like I was not present. Friends helped me out a lot. Thank you friends. Appreciate you a lot. Come sit with me, hang out with me, talk to me, drag me outside, drag me outside. And I told them I needed that. luckily I kind of think I kind of know myself. I was like, please force me out of this house out of just take me around. So I think that that is probably one of the best ways I dealt with it was asking my friends and being willing to just go when they say let’s go and forcing myself out of the house. I think that that helped a lot. I was really drawn to Brent’s mom. I’d met her before and as soon as it happened her and I had been on, you know, in contact on WhatsApp nonstop. I was just like,

I had this insane draw to go and just give her a hug. I just wanted to fly to England and give her a hug so bad. And I just kept not, it was just not working out. wasn’t time. And then she kind of mentioned there was gonna be some kind of a memorial and yeah, that was time. And so booked a flight and my dad, Bren, I think.

If you hadn’t known, Bren traveled around with me in the Pyranha van for multiple years. Towards the end of tour, we would end up going back east and doing the fall events, the dam release events. And then we’d be kind of jumping in out of my parents’ house, Brenny and myself. Sometimes Bren would be at my parents’ house for like a month or two, working. My dad owns a cemetery, he’d be like chopping wood for my dad or cutting grass or doing landscaping or helping him dig holes.

Saving money to get a plane ticket back to England. So that happened multiple years. he honestly he met like he has met more of my family than almost all of my friends. I mean, he met most of my uncles, my cousins, my he my grandfather who’s gone. It’s just kind of it’s kind of wild. So my dad ended up long story short, my dad ended up going with me. He didn’t want me to go alone. He knew brand. He wanted to help support me, which was thank you dad, I appreciate that. It huge, huge effort for him.

But yeah, think, yeah man, like sometimes you can’t do this shit on your own. I couldn’t, or it would have taken a lot longer, sucked way worse without friends, know, help from my friends and family, just having a shoulder to cry on and having someone to, you know, force you out of the goddamn house.

But yeah, that experience is still very, you know, think about it all the time. You know, I’ve seen, I feel like I have like another, I feel like I have like a whole nother connection, you know, with maybe a different world. Sometimes, you know, I feel like I feel Bren and sometimes I see Bren at times through other things that at least I think I see him.

After it happened, just felt like once I got out of that hole, I extremely present, like to a whole different degree.

Just like, I don’t know, like a fuzzy calm, calming almost, and just like more aware than I have been, I think. Yeah, a lot of fucking emotions. But it was really, really cool to be able to go over there to see that, to know that you helped someone.

And I think that, you know, recently with this life jacket project, in one of Seth did the video work for the project. And he wrote like, he wrote, he was thanking me for being one of the first people to give him a chance and believe in him as a filmmaker. And he’s gotten like extremely, extremely good, super good. It’s been really cool to watch his progression but it really reminded me of Bren. Seth just was fired up on this shit and he wanted to shoot. in the early days, I’d shoot with him and work with him. And then I continued to work with him and continue to work with him until he’s making, I don’t know, best, I’m not seeing anything better as far as film goes. He’s making amazing video, amazing projects. And then with Bren was the same thing. I just saw this really fired up individual that was a lot like me had such a drive, I learned where he came from and I knew he didn’t come from much. And I knew that just knowing that alone and just kind of like seeing him as a person, I knew he would do exactly what he did. He would like talk to me about…

just his dream of making really cool kayak videos and sharing that throughout the community and traveling the world and kayaking. And sometimes you’d get frustrated and I’d be like, dude, enjoy today because that shit is going to happen for you. You know, I’d have those conversations with him because I knew it was going to. I knew it. There was no fucking doubt in my mind. Why? I don’t know, but.

I think it just was obvious to me I could see it in him. And then seeing that, going to the UK, knowing how much that I meant to him and he meant to me and how much that I helped motivate him or at least encourage him.

Knowing that that was going to happen, that he was going to be one of the best characters we’ve ever seen. And then seeing it in front of my face in the form of 550 people there for his memorial paddle was fucking insane. And I still don’t know what to do with it. And it was just a crazy experience.

And just like the, yeah, like the amount of love that like so many paddlers that I had never met expressed to me, you know, they knew a lot about me and a lot about my connection with the brand.

But yeah, they voiced it and it was powerful. But yeah, I’m so grateful I was able to be a part of Bren. Yeah, I’m so grateful I was able to go there. Got to hug his mom. Got to look her in the eyes. I got to meet his nan, his grandmother, who he’d talked about stealing her credit card and going to Uganda and…

You know, how she basically, you know, helped raise him a lot. was a humongous part of his life. so getting to see her and hug her was just, it was amazing. It was, yeah. I think it’s.

I don’t really know specifically, I don’t know how you see this coming. I think you just have to be, keep your eyes open and like always give people a chance. know, with Bren and, know, Seth, you know, he just mentioned this, just me giving him a chance and Bren was like an obvious connection with he and I, but you know, I think, yeah, just being kind always and keeping your eyes open for that energy and that power that especially Bren had, you know, and I wanted to help him. you know, he, in one of his podcasts, and I never knew that, I didn’t know the story, but he was in Uganda and I sent him an email and invited him into the Piranha van. I was like, Bren, do want to come tour around the US and compete and hang out? And I just, he just, you know, I don’t know why he just like, he was just fired up and I thought he’d be fun to have travel in the van and like he was really good at freestyle I thought he could help there a lot with us you know he thought it was a joke he was like it was from this like Dem shits.com email and he’s like I thought it was a joke and I kept refreshing my I kept refreshing my email and everything and he’s like and then I bought the plane ticket and not anyone want to tell Dave I bought the plane ticket I was just gonna show up in Colorado just in case he might say no you know but yeah

Yeah, I think it’s just important to like, it’s important to be kind every goddamn day. You know, one thing I always hate is like first impressions because like we were talking about, like my first impression of that person was they were a dick or whatever. Like we were talking about earlier, maybe it was raining that day. Maybe it wasn’t sunny, you know, for them. Maybe their best friend drowned in the river.

Like you don’t have any idea what’s going on with that person that day and in that moment of time. And it could be the second time too. So I just think it’s so important to like, not get caught up on shit like that because it’s not always true. Sometimes it’s true, but I bet most times it’s not. bet 90 % of the time it’s not. I bet they’re having some kind of problem that day or broke up with their, you know, girlfriend, wife, who knows, but I don’t know.

Anna
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or their nervous system is just like they’re really nervous. And so then their coping mechanisms come through and they’re doing the best they can. Yeah. I just don’t know.

Dave Fusilli
Totally. And I might just be nervous around crowds of people, just anxiety in general, shit like that. I don’t know. I always tend to, feel like I’m pretty good at finding a way to communicate with the most people. It just comes naturally to me, but it is definitely partially, mean, a big part of it is always giving someone a chance, like at least a chance or two. mean, for me, usually it’s five chances, five strikes and you’re out, but I don’t know. I just.

I don’t know why I’m that way, but I think it’s important.

Anna
Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that, Dave. I’m just really present to what a beautiful person you are. Like really.

Dave Fusilli
I appreciate that.

Anna
And yeah, yeah, I, yeah. Thank you for being who you are. It’s pretty awesome.

Dave Fusilli
Thank you. I appreciate that a lot.

Try to keep doing it.

Anna
Can, yeah, you are doing it.

Anna
Can we shift gears one more time?

Dave Fusilli
Of course.

Anna
I’ve got some rapid fire questions for you.

Okay, they’re meant to be answered in like one word or a sentence. All right, so, yeah, yeah. Sometimes we go off, but on longer tangents, but okay.

Dave Fusilli
Okay, I’ll try.

Anna
What’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Dave Fusilli
I try for the yoga and if it’s not the yoga, I try to go to the gym at least. Yeah, it’s a yoga gym.

Anna
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Dave Fusilli
Non-negotiable stuff. That’s the gym. Yeah, I have to lift weights.

Anna
Yeah, gym. And by the way, I said this before we started… I have an image of you seared into my mind of some event we were all at an event. And like it was in a field and you had like a 90s van. I don’t know if maybe it was the Pyranha van. I can’t remember what van it was. And you like open the door.

You had a headband on and like your ponytail and a tank top and gym shorts and your weights. And I was like, my gosh, Dave is like Rambo or Rocky or whatever. Like you totally, totally never forgot that. my gosh. It was awesome. it was awesome. I have the photo in my mind.

Dave Fusilli
I I had a photo of this. I can’t remember it. I don’t, I believe you entirely though.

Dave Fusilli
Wish we could print it.

Anna
All right, what is your, what’s your, what’s your favorite motivational book or talk?

Dave Fusilli (52:09.358)
Books. I don’t do books so well. Yeah, that might be it.

Anna
Ha!

That’s okay. Or talk or quote or nothing. You can skip it. It doesn’t matter.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, let’s go with…

I like I’ve got a bunch of sayings, but I can’t think of them with a, I don’t know. You’re right where you need to be. How about that? You’re right where you’re supposed to be.

Anna (52:36.98)
Okay, that’s cool.

That’s a good one. I like it.

Dave Fusilli
And I didn’t make that up, but I’ve definitely heard it from somebody.

Anna
Dave Fusilli.

I like it. What do people get wrong about you?

Dave Fusilli
it’s a tough one too.

Dave Fusilli
I don’t know. I think I’m pretty open book.

Anna
Yeah. Agree. Okay. Throughout the course of your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favored to win?

Dave Fusilli
I would say, I would say probably the underdog is in the, the kayaking world. I’d say probably underdog when I’m thinking of racing and stuff. I never like really focused that hard on it. guess not, not to win focused to have like do decent, not, yeah, I never trained to win anything.

Probably underdog.

Anna
Yeah, what’s interesting about that, right? The underdog maybe in like competition, but when you look at like your legacy, and we’ve talked a lot about your legacy in this podcast, you know, the brown claw, know, inclusivity, brand stuff, it means just, and there’s more that there’s much more, but I think that so it’s, I always find it, that’s why I asked that question, because it’s interesting to
hear what how we feel about that versus like what’s out there anyway

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, I guess maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe competition underdog and general life winning.

Anna
Winning, yes. Okay, hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Dave Fusilli
Man, I feel like this is unsafe but flooding.

Anna
It’s good. Okay. What’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Dave Fusilli
smooth.

Anna
Freedom through discipline or I do what I want.

Dave Fusilli
combo. I’m disciplined in some ways, but I think a lot of times I just do whatever the hell I want. But like, I feel like the only, the only reason I’m still able to do what I want, at least physically is from discipline. Having discipline with my body, mind can always be more with them. More, more on both is always a thing, but you know, we can only try.

Anna
Yeah. One step at a time. And actually what I liked just since you mentioned that when you were talking about doing like, I don’t know, 15 minutes of yoga in the morning. I really love that because sometimes folks think that like doing these like self care or having discipline means like you have to spend long, like a lot of hours on something, which is helpful if you have big goals and you know, I always tell folks like 10, 15 minutes of yoga, like several times a week is amazing. It’s like when you think of water, right? Water wears down rock over time. It’s very powerful.

Dave Fusilli
Right.

Sure. No, I think you’re right. I totally agree with you. It’s just like it’s if anything for sure, it’s going to loosen your body up at least some, but it is it is definitely going to reset your mind to at least you’re at least going to tap into your breathing some enough to remember throughout the day, you know, enough to set you up throughout the day. If you have something that’s if you have, know, if I did 10 or 15 minutes of yoga in the morning, got into that at least a little bit of that rhythm of breathing. And I went to run something really scary. That rhythm of breathing would come to me so much quicker than if I didn’t do it that day or that week. So yeah, I fully agree.

Anna
In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Dave Fusilli (57:06.689)
I guess love.

Just spreading that love, you know, just like we were talking about with the Dem shits earlier. It’s just like.

Anna
Great.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, I think that would be the most powerful word and the most powerful thing. If that could end up, that would be pretty, maybe that could be a little ego. I don’t know. Maybe that’s a lot, but I think that’s a good goal.

Anna
Yeah, I think you’re on your way. Anyway, according to this conversation, I feel more love.

Dave Fusilli
Good. Hell yeah, I’d love that.

Anna
Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners?

Dave Fusilli
How about as we’re rolling up to this exciting election, we’re a couple weeks out of, we take that red over here and that blue over here and we make it purple. How about that, folks?

Anna
Mmm. Nice. I like it.

Dave Fusilli
I don’t know.

Yeah, I think the best takeaway that I’d like to push out there is like kind of, it’s simple to do is not getting stuck on those first impressions, always giving people second and third chances because you just don’t know how their day is going. And try to make one.

Try to make one person’s day just a tiny bit better every day. So maybe say, let’s say you’re checking out at the grocery store. Maybe just give that checkout lady like a real big smile and a big thank you. That could be something that simple.

I had a friend that told me we can change the world that way.

Make one person’s day a little bit better every single day.

Anna
Yeah, that’s a great practice. And even to have that, that energy, like, because it, you know, whatever we’re thinking about, that’s where our awareness and our energy goes. So then chances are, if we do that, we’re going to do it multiple times, actually, you know, and we’ll have that be as, an intention. That’s like, yeah, beautiful. And, you know, in terms of the smile, you know, I think that
holding space for people, smiling at people. Sometimes we underestimate the power of that listening, actually acknowledging someone looking at them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of us are better at that than others, I think. Yeah, you can.

Dave Fusilli
Totally making a random person laugh is good, really good. You can do that. Yeah.
sure.

I can do that. I can do that.

Could be a little ridiculous, but we’re not taking ourselves too seriously.

Anna
Well, thanks, Dave. I really appreciate it. Right? That’s right. You should just put back on your when you go to the gym, put back on your rocky outfit and walk around.

Dave Fusilli
I was a Rambo at the Green Race one time.

Anna
Yeah, I remember that.

Dave Fusilli
think it was in an old LVM. It was hilarious. I actually like pulled it off pretty well.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, thanks. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for being here. I appreciate you. It was great to connect again.

Dave Fusilli
Yeah, it’s super good to see you and talk to you and yeah, hopefully I see you back east sometime. I probably wouldn’t be till golly at this point. I don’t know, but I wish you guys luck down there with everything. Yeah.