Anna
My guest today, Kara Weld, is the co-owner and CEO of Immersion Research, one of the leading brands of whitewater kayaking gear and apparel. She was a member of the U.S. National Canoe Slalom Team from 1984 to 1997 and is a three-time U.S. National Canoe Slalom Champion. She was the first woman to run Great Falls of the Potomac, is the organizer of the Upper Yough Race, and is the mother of two teenage boys. And I’m really excited to have her here. Thank you, Kara, for being here.

Kara Weld
Thanks for inviting me.

Anna
Yeah. So this podcast centers around the discomfort zone. And I like to start by asking, when I say discomfort zone, what does that mean to you or what comes up for you?

Kara Weld
I think that I think I live a lot of my life in the discomfort zone. But when I say that, I doesn’t feel like a negative thing for me. I feel like it’s a balance of challenge or fear or

Kara Weld
It’s a balance of…

Kara Weld (01:24.654)
Sorry.

Anna
Yeah, well, you were saying it’s a challenge. I think what I’m hearing you say is it’s a challenge between fear and… To me, when I think of you, I think of like, you’re tough, know, when I think of you, like someone who loves challenge. And I don’t want to just like, know, tough because I appreciate vulnerability as well.

but you are someone who takes on challenges. You’ve taken on a lot of challenges, even your bio just, know, first women to run the Gray Falls at the Potomac. That’s like a huge class five waterfall. Taking on organizing the upper yacht race to me is also pretty, well, for me, it sounds like discomfort zone because to me, the upper yacht community is another tough community. And that’s just my perception. So I’ll put that out there.

and, you know, co-founding, like the only company that is still making specifically whitewater. Like there’s a lot of challenge in all of that and you’re still in it. you must, you know, there’s something there that I’m assuming that really lights you up in all of that.

Kara Weld
Yeah, I don’t know that I’m tough, but I think I look, I put myself in what I would, what I think of as the discomfort zone a lot for a lot of different reasons. And, know, whether it’s adventure sports that I do that are risky, I’m drawn to that running your own business is certainly, you’re in the discomfort zone a lot.

think when you have employees or any business, but any small business. But the way I look at, when I think about the choices that I’ve made, why I put myself in that position is I think it’s a balance. There’s a give and there’s a take. like, if you look at running a business, for example, I mean, I guess, you you do all this hard work for a financial gain, for a paycheck. But if it was as simple as that, we wouldn’t have started a whitewater gear company. So it has to be beyond that. And I think kayaking is kind of a metaphor for this, and I think you use a lot of that in your teaching yourself, but it’s beyond just a paycheck the discomfort of running your own business and having constant challenges and having to make decisions. I mean, as the owner of a company, anything that comes across your desk is probably the difficult thing because someone else would probably have taken care of it. And so everything that’s coming at you all day, there are days where I’m just like, I just don’t want to make any more decisions. Can somebody just tell me what to do? And there’s nobody to tell you what to do, right? So the other side of that is, and I can honestly say this, and I know it probably sounds cliche or what I should say, but it’s not. It’s truly that I think my husband and I both, because we run our company together, would agree with this, is that we really love what we do. We really love the people who work with us and our customers. There are people, And I don’t know that if all companies could say that. mean, I’m sure the head of Coca-Cola can’t say that about everyone that drinks Coca-Cola. But I you know, and you probably feel the same way about your business. And that’s the reward. So that’s the give and the take.

And I think for me, kayaking and paddling like difficult white water, it’s the same thing. I don’t particularly love to be scared, but on the other side of that is the enjoyment that I get from moving through the water in a kayak. I don’t really know how to define what that is, but it feels really, really good. It feels better than any other sport that I’ve ever done.

You know, and then when that discomfort gets so high that the reward on the other side of it isn’t worth it anymore, then that’s when that balance gets, that’s when it gets out of balance. That’s the way I think of discomfort. So it’s not really a negative thing. It’s just the balance of the give and the take, the risk, the reward, however you want to put that.

Anna
Yeah, absolutely. Totally. mean, and I think this podcast, when I say discomfort zone, I also put myself in the discomfort zone. So I don’t see, like I see the discomfort zone as a positive and the whole point of it is to hear from different people on how they navigate that. And there, I want to pick up on like, there are several things you said that I’m excited to talk more about. One is,

When you say moving through, like you don’t like to be scared, but there’s something about moving through the water. And I think that, know, whitewater kayaking is one of the best venues for learning how to move through that fear to get to the other side. Maybe it’s cause you get to like go downstream. Everyone gets downstream at some point. you know, you’ll get that feeling at the bottom.

But yeah, I think it’s amazing in that sense. Do you, and then you mentioned that when the risk to reward is no longer balanced, that that’s when that’s kind of your cue to, whether it’s step away or do something different. Can you talk more about that? Like what kinds of things come up for you that let you know, okay, this is not rewarding anymore?

Kara Weld
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I don’t know when it happened, but there’s a point in time for me not too long ago that like being running scary class five just became a no go for me. I don’t want to myself in that place anymore. And I won’t say that was always an easy decision to make, but and I’m still probably coming to terms with it sometimes, but I just knew that I didn’t want to spend my time doing that anymore. I didn’t want to be really scared. But I think that…

I think there’s a drive for challenge that I have and I think most people have that you still want to move forward in life. I would say as you get older, as generally, you kind of back down on these things, but you still want a challenge. that can become, like class four could become just enough of
just scary enough and fun enough or you find for me what I’ve realized and I think I took this for granted so much growing up because I started kayaking as a little kid. I get so much joy in being on the river with my friends and my family. It’s unbelievable. Like that is enough to do something a little risky or scary, be cold and wet all day, haul a heavy boat around, you do whatever it takes to get in and out of this river. And because that need to be out on the water with people you really care about, there’s nothing better in the world to me. And that movement through the…

moving in a boat through the water is still something I’m so drawn to, right? So, I mean, that’s the beautiful thing about kayaking is you don’t have to class five to really have a good time. You know, so I think that, you know, that’s like dialed back a notch. What, what really define where that line is for me, I can’t really say. I mean, certainly,

Anna
Right. Yeah, absolutely.

Kara Weld
I mean, we’ve all had scary situations on the river and those add up or other people’s scary. I feel like it’s this, it all adds up what’s happened to other people that we know so many people in the industry and in the sport. It just, it’s cumulative a little bit, but yeah, I’m trying to think of, you know, in other sports too that I do that are considered risky.

I mean, the other thing I think a lot about is I need these sports to keep me happy. know that I, they motivate me, they keep me moving forward. I’m not ready to give up on them. I, there’s definitely like for mountain biking, for example, there’s a line that I won’t cross because I can’t afford to get hurt. Not because I’m really afraid of getting hurt because I don’t want to not be able to keep doing the thing I love, you know, a couple of times a week. And if I’m injured and I’m out for six months or whatever, I just can’t go there mentally. So, I just.

Anna
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s that give and take that I hear, you know, like that give and take of, and the other thing you said that I thought what came up for me when you were, I can’t remember what you said exactly, but when I also have given up paddling class five and I have so much fun on class four, I mean, there’s certain like the cascades that are considered class five, but friendly. would classify that as very friendly class five if it’s class five, that kind of thing. But when you said, yeah, things that I used to take for granted, and I think that maybe, well, at least for me, when I was paddling a lot of class five, I was paddling all the time and it didn’t take as much effort and energy to move through the fear. mean, in my personality, it has always taken me a lot to move through fear, but definitely now it would take a lot more and I’m just not willing to commit the time and the energy because there’s other things I want to commit that to. yeah, that’s what came up for me.

Kara Weld
Yeah, I was just talking with my sister about that same thing actually, and she’s also a kayaker. And when you’re kayaking all the time, every day, you when I raced slalom, you know, for 20 years and you’re in your boat twice a day every day, you’re so tuned in, not only to your skills and what you can do, but just what to wear. you know, to the… the tiniest base layer exactly what to wear on this day. You know, do I need Pogies or not? Like, know, you’re just tuned in, you know, and if you’re not kayaking all the time, that’s a hurdle for sure. And I don’t think it’s the same with like skiing, because you don’t ski, I mean, most parts of the world, you don’t ski for six months out of the year. And then all of a sudden it snows and you strap on your skis and you go, you might not be like performing at your best but you can just hop on your skis and go and you don’t have all that other baggage to bring along that you do for kayaking. And for biking, it’s like, fitness, if you haven’t been on your bike in a while, you’re like, my goodness, I really need to get fit, these hills are killing me, but you’re not like afraid to like, you know, get on your bike and bike down the road. I think kayaking has some particular hurdles that way.

Anna
Yeah, because the medium, the venue is moving underneath you. That’s a whole other thing. not only do you have to manage yourself and your own skills, you have to understand the medium. Like when you’re mountain biking, the trail isn’t moving under you. When you’re skiing, you’re hoping that the snow isn’t moving under you. Otherwise, that’s really bad. But in kayaking, there’s that whole other level and it does take energy and effort and it’s a beautiful thing. Like you said, to be moving downriver because you’re in a relationship with that water. There’s something really special about that. You’re like dancing with the water or moving with the water. I feel really connected with nature when I’m in that zone. It’s really special. Yeah.

Kara Weld
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, and you work a lot with people who are trying to overcome these fears and work from beginners through advanced paddlers. And I think that’s one of the things about kayaking too. And I know that your audience is just kayakers, but I think this applies to a lot of things is that you have to find something you love about a sport that motivates you, whether it’s being out on the water with friends or that feeling that you get when you do it. It takes so long to get good at kayaking. It takes such a commitment. You can’t really just dabble at it. You have to really put some effort. I taught kayaking for a long, time.

It’s the first I always told people it’s gonna get infinitely more fun. The first couple of days are not gonna be fun It’s counterintuitive. It’s cold. It’s wet. It’s upside down. It’s scary for everybody and I think everybody in the you 30 some years I taught kayaking was scared except for one big wave surfer who just thought everything was great. He was a big big wave surfer

Anna
Right.

Hahaha.

That’s awesome.

Kara Weld
So unless you’re coming with that background, you’re scared. And you have to really know or get to something that you really, really enjoy about it. Because I think, I don’t know, I see a lot of people coming and kayaking and they’re really scared. And I look at them and I think, Why are you putting yourself through this? You don’t have to. mean, there’s a million other sports. I there’s pickleball. Everyone’s doing that. So it’s just either.

Anna
Yes.

Kara Weld
It’s you just, I think you just have to commit to a little bit of a long haul of finding that place that if it’s worth putting in that effort in the beginning to find that place that you enjoy, then it’s worth going. And I don’t know where you draw that line for yourself, but.

Anna
Yeah. Well, I think that’s where you play. mean, that’s why I think instruction or organized groups are really important or can be in the beginning. So you can kind of find that line for yourself in a supportive environment to where you’re not just like, to where, know, people are looking out for you, you know, someone with more experience and you can like, that’s what I love about what I do is I provide a, like a container for people to come play their edge. You know, I love giving a little bit of tough love and being like, let’s see what you can do here. here, I’m watching, I don’t, obviously it’s always challenged by choice, but even for myself, I’m much more likely to challenge myself if I trust the group that I’m with, versus with random people who I don’t know and I don’t know what their rescue skills are like. I don’t know if they’re paying attention. So I think that that’s important in beginning. I just have to say, well, one, sometimes I ask myself that question when I’m on the river, like, why am I doing this? And I always have an answer. was like, because you love it. And so when I do get really nervous, and I do ask myself, I talk to myself, like, okay, well, don’t go, Anna. Like, if it’s really that scary, don’t go. And then if I feel, then I’ll get a feeling of, like, for instance, when the Green was the Green, that I’ve known it before Hurricane Helene. At some point I was like, yeah, Gorilla, no. And I’ve never, I never had a problem with it. Like at one point I ran it and then at some point it was like, nope. And I never questioned myself. It was fine. I had great time without running the big three. And then there are other rapids where I’d be like, I’m so nervous.

And then I’d say, well, don’t run it. And then I’d be like, no, I’m going to, I want to run it, you know? And it was immediate the answer for me. So then that’s when I do take the time to invest, whether I get out and scout one more time or, you know, ask someone a tip, like if I’m piling with Andrew, like, what do you do here? Like what, you know, what boat angle or, you know, just try and get a little bit more information to help me feel more confident or just say, yeah, trust yourself. You’ve done this a million times, you know?

But if the answer is like, no, then that’s fine. If the answer is like, no, I want to run it, then it’s like, sweet. Then it is like, yes, remember you chose this. And I like to remind my clients that too, you chose this. There’s something about this that is drawing you in. So let’s stay with the discomfort. You can do it. I’m here, you can do it. And that’s when you see these, or I see these amazing aha moments on the other side people being so proud that they stayed with it and so excited that they ran this rapid or learned this skill. You know, it’s cool.

Kara Weld
Great. Yeah, and that’s the challenge aspect. think it’s human nature to keep trying to move forward with challenging yourself. And it’s just finding that balance of enough challenge to get to that rewarding place.

Anna
Yeah, totally. The other thing I want to say is that when I was, Andrew and I were visiting my parents this August when we were at the Ottawa and then visiting them and they kicked our butts in pickleball like for like two or three games. And then I finally challenged them and my parents are 80. They’re amazing, you know? So anyway, I got really into it when I was up there trying to learn some techniques.

Kara Weld
That’s awesome.

I haven’t gone there yet. I’m like, it’s there waiting when I’m ready. But it seems like I’m the only person in this country at least not.

Anna
Yeah, totally, I know. Another, something else you said at the beginning of our conversation that I want to touch on, but I think is that I guess only because I experienced this as well as when you said as a business owner, sometimes you wish that there would be someone else that could make this decision for you or take care of this and there is no one else because you’re it. And I feel that way as well in my business of like, man, yeah, and that decision fatigue. Can you talk a little bit more about how you navigate that for yourself?

Kara Weld
Yeah, mean, so IR, our company, has been, I think it was like 27, 28 year, 28th year, it’s a long time. And…

Decisions come across my desk, would say, easily daily. I mean, there is, and from the beginning. And I see in other people who I know who’ve tried to start their own business, and I’m sure you’ve had this, people will come to you for advice on how to start a business because they see what you’ve done. And I think that a lot of people are afraid of making the wrong choice in these decisions and that stops them from moving forward. And I think one of the things John and I figured out is you’ve got to make the best decision you can at the time, but you’ve got to keep moving. And maybe kayaking is a good, you’re really good at using the river as a metaphor, but maybe there’s something here where you just got to keep moving forward downstream and you’ve got to make the best decision you can at the time. And that fatigue is something I see and I’ll see it even in employees. They don’t want to make that little jump and it’s hard because you’re really talk about discomforts and you’re really putting yourself out there Elijah. I mean I could name 20 things that came across just this morning that we have to decide and none of them are easy or fun.

You know, from HR things to financial things to production, know, moving factories, know,
R &D questions about fabric or a tape or a seam or a construction of a garment. It’s just coming at you all the time in what we do. And I’m sure you have the same kind of decisions what you should do or shouldn’t do. Should we do this clinic or that or grow this way or that?

I think, I mean, there are definitely times where I don’t immediately have a decision. They may take us a while to work through all the possible scenarios, but at some point you just have to put on your skirt and run the drop. You know, it’s true. I mean, I think of, really do think about that a lot. You just have to do the best you can, you know, I mean.

Anna
Yeah, love that. Yep.

Yeah. And it’s kind of like, you actually, an analogy that’s coming to mind too is, okay, you make a decision and yeah, it might be like some decisions are like, you’re running the drop and that’s, and then other decisions I like to remind myself, okay, well you can catch this Eddie and from that Eddie, so you’re moving forward and then from that Eddie look around and see where you want to go next. Like you have options.

And just because you choose this today doesn’t mean you can’t choose differently like a week from now or tomorrow or a year from now, you know?

Kara Weld
Some just, yeah. But you’re right now, like I’m very data driven. So a lot of times when we’re getting a whole bunch of things at us, I’m like, pull back. need some numbers. I need to relook at these numbers in another way. I need to analyze this data. need to, and you’re still making your best guess. but yeah, you can Eddie out and maybe sneak, maybe walk, find the best line. Maybe you’re gonna Donkey flip.

Anna
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like always be testing. I worked with a business coach for a while, which was really helpful for me because I don’t have a background in business. To your point, you’re data-driven. When people would talk about forecasting and stuff, was like, how do you do that? It’s like, well, because you don’t actually know.

You know, it is an educated guess. And I always thought that there was like some magic thing where some people just know, you know what I mean? Or they know things that I don’t. But anyways, my business coach used to say, always be testing. And I like that. And not put so much, so much, I mean, obviously you do because if you’re not making a profit, and this is the thing that’s important, if you’re not making a profit, then you’re not really in business because it’s hard, whether that profit is small or big or some years just making it, whatever. like with the always be testing, I don’t know where I was going with all this. I don’t know what I was trying to say, but always be testing with the, like, and you can change, you get more information and you can refine or change. I don’t know if that made any sense, but.

Kara Weld
Yeah, I guess I took it. was thinking you going the direction of
I mean, if you just stick to what you think you know, or you’ve always done, and you’re not really open to going other directions and, you because the data, you know, data, for example, data can be really helpful, but then you need to step back and be like, well, the reason why these didn’t sell that well is that year those those shipped two months late, or, know, like, there’s always a human factor to analyzing the data. Yeah. I was going to tell a funny story about it. So there was a company then Paddle Sports, they’re not really a company anymore, that they kept moving through buyouts and new employees all the time and they hired some new person to come in and take over this job and they were buying something from us that we were supplying and in their system they were buying a backband from us. Probably can’t out who this was. And the name of the backband in their system was the same as one of their kayaks that they were making in their system, right? And the people who were there before were paddlers and they knew what it was and they knew what we made. But like this person just ran the data and ran the numbers and you know, it was like, you need to get us, know, X number of these in a week. the whole thing was so confusing to me and couldn’t figure out what was going on because we were talking about two different things.

We were talking about the back end. was the only thing we had ever supplied to them. They were talking about a boat and it was clearly like, this person had just been looking at this data and didn’t know what they were looking at. I don’t know. Maybe that’s a little off track, but it just reminded me that.

Anna
Right. Yeah. That’s no, that’s yeah. No, for sure. Sounds confusing and kind of funny. And yeah, that’s the thing. The data, it’s really easy to interpret data based on our biases as well. So like what we want to see or, like you said, have, you know, there are factors that might affect like shipping or like how it’s entered in the system. Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Weld
Okay.

But AI is this concern of everybody’s right now. And you can go and ask AI any question right now. And you can see where it’s just pulling data from Reddit or something, which is not answering your question at all. That’s what that kind of reminds me of. It’s getting better. That’s another topic. But that’s a good example of that how you interpret that. yeah, certainly. Shoot, you made me think of something that.

Anna
Right, yeah.

That’s okay.

Yeah, I have a question for you. What do you think it’s because you just earlier you mentioned how there are several companies, boat companies, gear companies in the whitewater space and in the outdoor industry in general who have gone through buyouts and been bought up by big conglomerates and all that. What keeps you in you and John in the like,

you are still, I don’t know what you call it, owned by the same owners you haven’t sold. What is it that drives y’all to stay in the space kind of as you are and continue to grow?

Kara Weld
I think it’s because we continue to grow and do new things that we find challenging and interesting and fun. Like we’re still really, I know it sounds really cliche, but really enjoy what we’re doing. As hard as it is, and it really is hard. You know, someone will ask you the question, like if you had known this 27 years ago, would you have done this?

I mean, financially probably wasn’t the smartest thing for the two of us to do with our brains, but we both really, really enjoy it. And John will say, he’s the first one to say he’s completely unemployable, which I guess I’d like to think that maybe I’m employable. I also think that it’s like that putting on the skirt, running the drop thing.

All in. We went all in. My degree is in education. I was going to teach John’s degrees in English. I don’t know what he was going to do with that. yeah, yeah. And so when we started in our basement and I learned accounting and production, that’s kind of that’s my side and John’s more the creator.

Anna
wow. I didn’t know that. Yeah.

Kara Weld
I don’t think we, you we didn’t know this was gonna be a thing then. We just started in our basement. I knew that John needed to create in some way or another something. We never set out to be like, we’re gonna make this business together and work side by side. That was, it just took on a life of its own. And I remember still, I feel like every, 10 years at least, we’re remaking an entirely new business in a way. When we started IR, the internet and selling on the web was, very few companies were doing that, it was new. I mean, just the changes in the sport, since I’ve been in the sport are unbelievable. mean, everyone paddled fiberglass kayaks when I started kayaking.

I mean, this was in the thirties. just kidding. But, but I started, yeah, I started kayaking in the late seventies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that really in this, in this, yeah, in this country is a pretty new sport. And I mean, it’s been a long time, but you know, like there’s people that work for me that weren’t even certainly weren’t even.

Anna
Dang. Yeah, one of the originals. OG.

Anna
Mm-hmm.

Kara Weld
born when I was when I was kayaking a lot, but it’s a relatively not a very long time. so, you know, John and I started out, we really wanted to, and you probably know this used to race in the in the Triple Crown and compete in some of the events we did that were so much fun. That we really just wanted, we didn’t really start out to make technical kayaking gear, we wanted to make more lifestyle.

clothing and apparel for kayaking. We wanted to bring to kayaking what we saw on snowboarding, which was just really blowing up in the 80s and, sorry, in the 90s. We started I.R. in the late 90s. And what we saw, we taught kayaking, both of us taught kayaking. We saw our students coming into the kayak school were getting younger and younger instead of teaching like 45 year old orthodontist. We had, you know,

I mean, that was a very typical student for us. You know, we started having like 20 year olds. And so we, you know, of course, kayaking never became snowboarding or surfing, but that was our, we wanted to, you know, we started making stuff for women that fit women and there was nothing and brighter colors and younger looking stuff, more not fashion, but more fashionable for kayaking, certainly.
And so anyhow, that continues to change. mean, we are kind of full circle in some ways where we’re really focused right now on, you know, this high, highly technical dry wear, which was not what we set out to do. and you said with your business, you came at knowing, knowing nothing about business. came at this knowing nothing about business. mean, my, my dad had a kayaking school with a retail shop. So we knew sort of how that works how retail worked, you We knew how to kayak.

Anna
And here you are 30 years later, know, still in business. It’s great. Yeah, yeah. There is something, I don’t know what it was.

Kara Weld
Yeah, right. Still in business. So going. Yeah.

Anna
yeah. So I have a question about working with your significant other. I’m sure, well, I have worked with Andrew before and leading trips and we actually work well together and there’s some discomfort there for sure. There’s a discomfort zone. So I would just like to hear, do you have any tips or advice for folks if… they’re thinking about getting into business with their significant other and how to navigate that.

Kara Weld
Don’t do it. No, just kidding. Just kidding. No, it works really well for us. I don’t really, I know if I have any tips other than for us, we really do two different things. And the easiest way to describe it and probably the most truthful is that John makes the mess and I clean up the mess. It’s the same at home. It’s the same in the kitchen.

Anna
Ha!

Kara Weld
No, he cleans up a little bit. But we do two different worlds. There’ll be weeks at IR where we almost don’t even communicate or talk. We’re doing two different things. Yeah. So if we were both designing and had different schools of thought on that, that might be different situation.

Our jobs, I mean, they overlap in some ways, of course, it’s a small business.

Yeah, it just, I don’t know, it works. And we’ve been married, we’ll be married 30 years in almost, we’re honored. Yeah, that’s a long time. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So we figured out something.

Anna
Wow. Congratulations. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, it’s kind of like what I hear, you I think with Andrew and I also one thing that works is being independent, which is what I hear you say, like you’re doing two different jobs. Sometimes you’re not communicating all the time at work. So it’s not like you’re, you know, you’re doing your own thing, which I think is healthy in general for relationships. That’s just my perspective though. So I think I can relate with what you’re saying.

Kara Weld
Yeah, why not.

Yeah, I think so. But, you know, so we do a lot of sports together. We kayak together. We bike together. We enjoy a lot of the same kind of discomfort zones outside for sure. Both of us really are drawn to uncomfortable whether it’s really long and hard physically or really cold and demanding or I don’t and I don’t have an answer for why that is. But my point about John and I is that that works for us. We both enjoy doing the same things. We certainly have things that we go do off on our own as well.

Anna
Sure. Yeah.

Kara Weld
But then I see other couples that have been married for a long time and they do two different worlds. One loves kayaking and one doesn’t at all, you know? you know, it’s that balance. It’s people find their own balance. That really works for us. I don’t think it would work for me or maybe John is the same way to have my partner just be completely the opposite in two different worlds. We enjoy each other’s company that way and we enjoy a lot of these kind of things. And you and Andrew are probably very similar.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, definitely, for sure. Cool. Go ahead.

Kara Weld
Yeah. But in terms of the, yeah, people, you know, in kayaking, there’s a attaining that I know you’re familiar with. And for other people, it’s you paddle back up the river, which people think that are not kayakers think is insane. How are you going to do this? And, you know, if you’re, if you’re a kayaker, you realize that there’s eddies and you’re using the slower water or you use a wave to surf up upstream into an eddy and then use that slow water that’s actually moving upstream to use and momentum and you can paddle up over drops and and use power and speed and force when you need to but it looks impossible you know from the lay person that looks impossible but we’re drawn to going upstream both of us and we do the same things on our bikes there are some rides that people think it are we are insane that we will a bike up to the top and shuttle, like have a car at the top and not go back. I don’t know if it’s awesome. It’s weird. I enjoy going back downhill for sure, but there’s a shuttle ride out here that’s kind of infamous and John will often, people don’t want to do the climb. So John will.

Anna
That’s awesome.

Kara Weld
How do they make it work? I can’t think of how you do the shuttle now, but he’ll do the climb part and draw, know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. They draw, they’ll drag the car to the top. They go down, right? And then he’ll go up and bring the car back down, right? And people are just like, this is gold. You know, this is the ultimate shuttle bunny. mean, nobody wants to do that.

Anna
Right. Well, that’s great. What is one thing that you’ve learned about yourself through like coming back over and over again to the discomfort zone?

Kara Weld
I think it’s that I need, I enjoy that zone. I think of it as a positive place. I enjoy a challenge. wanna keep, I’m always looking for a challenge, I guess. And I’ve realized that it’s just something that motivates me, keeps me happy.

Anna
Mm, awesome. Do you have a question for me or any questions for me?

Kara Weld
I mean, you teach a lot of people to kayak. What is your biggest challenge in teaching in terms of that discomfort, that fear that we’ve talked about? Because that’s kind of the underlying.

Anna
I tend to teach, my clients tend to be high performers and they’re really hard on themselves. And so one of the challenges for, and I can relate because I am similar in my own life. And so it’s, you know, I get to learn and practice and see when folks are get so down on themselves, like, because they swam, took a swim, or they missed a line that they were like, I’m gonna get it today. And then they go into a…

you know, I just suck, this sucks, like I can’t do it and really get down and on their entire paddling versus being able to say, okay, that particular thing didn’t work out today. Like, yeah, okay, I took a swim, it wasn’t fun, but that doesn’t mean I totally suck as a kayaker and that I shouldn’t be out here. And that’s always, I appreciate that challenge to just be with people.

And the key is to not, cause I used to, you if you try and fix it or try and say something to make them feel better, like that’s not going to help. Right. What I’ve learned is that I just have to be there and I just let them like, be in the suck. Like just be, yeah, that was that sucked. I’m totally there with you. I know it’s not fun. And just like, let them work through that. And then when they’re ready, you know,

to try and give that different, that wider perspective. Because I can relate, because I remember when I competed, if I didn’t do well in a competition, and by not doing well, sometimes that just meant I was out of the medals or like was fifth or something, you know.

And then I would be like, I suck, everyone thinks I suck, shouldn’t be here. mean, ridiculous and like crying. mean, just so dramatic, like so much energy wasted on that. And so I like to help people let go of the all or nothing attitude because it’s also a growth area for me and it’s challenging.

Kara Weld
Mm-hmm. Separate like the instant from your whole self worth. Yeah.

Anna
Right, not collapsing your self-worth with your performance on that one given day. Because you can wake up and whatever, you didn’t sleep well, you had a crappy phone call with a friend or a family member or something is going, I don’t know. And I think different things can affect us. yeah, I would say that’s a challenge.

Kara Weld
Yeah, so it is a challenge for a lot of people. think it’s always a good reminder to not you know, to step back of that perspective from one event, one situation, one day on the river, one swim is not your whole paddling experience and who you are or anything.

Anna
Yeah, totally. And it’s this, right? And the same in business, like for me, like if a program doesn’t sell or like I had, you know, I’ve had programs that have had like two people and I’ve run them. It’s not the best, like you said, financially, but that doesn’t mean that that program will never sell or, you know, or, you know, test it a few more times. And then, yeah, if like after three times it’s not there, then…

But don’t make that like, I don’t know what I’m doing in business. Just be like, yeah, that program didn’t work out. It’s not what people wanted. Okay, well, let me see if I can put something else together that people will want, you know, that will be compelling to them.

Kara Weld
Yeah, and I feel like events, because I do this upper yoke race and programs, I think that a lot of times you do have to try something, you know, three times before it gets momentum. And then, you know, but yeah, you can’t blame yourself for, there’s a lot of factors when things work or don’t work.

Anna
Right.

Yeah. And to not also be hard on yourself for trying something new, you know?

Kara Weld
because you really are putting yourself out there in these things. You really are. And that’s that risk to reward and that challenge, that discomfort. Yeah, a lot of people don’t want to put themselves there and that stops them from doing it. But I think, again, the reward side of that is what motivates me to do these things.

Anna
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because when you do hit on something that is really compelling to folks and you see that and you experience that with them and they’re so pumped, it’s like amazing. It’s the best feeling. Yeah.

Kara Weld
Yeah, so rewarding, right? For sure. Like the upper yoke race, we all I’ve really wanted to do since I started racing in this race in the in the 80s, the late 80s is is have more women race. There it was just always a struggle and until we really putting energy into that and I wasn’t really sure how to go about doing it. But it’s really simple things like, you know, just treating the women, like elevating the women at the award ceremony or, you know, you know, pay all these things like, you know, we don’t have to get into all that. But this year we did, I don’t know if you saw this, probably that we did this junior girls race clinic because after we started getting a lot of so the women’s cost has grown so much. It’s amazing. I mean, it’s so great. you know, and I don’t care if people raise want to race their kayak. I don’t it’s not really about that. It’s just like

This is here for you and we want you to feel like you can do it if you want to. I never want to push anybody to race. I don’t really care if people are racing. I go out and this is what I’ve seen. was just seeing women more and more and more more women on the river. you do your, yeah, you guys do that takeover, which is amazing. So you just wanted to make these little differences, just saying, hey, we noticed that you’re out here and we were.

Anna
Exactly. Yeah.

Kara Weld
It’s really grown. Then we started doing this junior clinic and it’s just been, you know, that we’ve just done one year and it’s just been amazing. Forget how we started this conversation about putting yourself out there. You know, it’s a talk about a thankless job running an event. my goodness, all you ever hear about or complaints, right? That’s just human nature, right? And you’re like, why am I doing this? There’s no financial gain at all. All the money goes to American Whitewater, every single penny. And my staff doesn’t like they volunteer. It’s all volunteer.

Anna
Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Kara Weld
Why are we doing this? I feel like I do this a lot because I raced a lot in my career and it’s all my give back to those people. Though they are not benefiting from it because they’re there. But anyhow, does feel really, I guess there is that part of it does feel really good when you’ve done something for other people. Better than yourself, for sure.

Anna
Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you. I appreciate your work in elevating women. And like you said, seems like it’s really that people want to be seen and heard and be able to see themselves as part of the event or as a racer. And so like you said, even if there’s two women still having an award ceremony and recognizing that class, because if it’s recognized then more people will be like, there’s a women’s class, cool. Again, it seems like small things and they make a huge difference. And I remember, is it…

Kara Weld (51:20.247)
Right.

It can be a long time to figure that out.

Anna
Yeah, I hear you. I think too, because those of us who start, I mean, you started way earlier than me. I started kayaking in the early night, mid nineties. I mean, it is a male, still a male dominated sport. you kind of like did, or I felt like I had to like, you know, I don’t know if conform, but like do what was expected and act as was expected. And it was like men who set the norms. And so then for us that was normal. then you, again, talking about coming back to the theme that’s been throughout this conversation of taking a step back and looking at the big picture of being like, well, I love questioning. Like, why? Why do we do it that way? Do we need to do it that way? Can we do it differently? Like, how could we? I I just think it’s healthy. It’s nothing against anyone or like,

It’s just simply like, okay, let’s look at big picture here. And I think, it Mattie? Who does Mattie? Yeah, Mattie Kimmel. I had a brief, I think Facebook conversation with her about the clinic and she had expressed some concern that there were only three junior women. And I was really encouraging her like, yes, awesome, do it. That’s how you’re gonna grow it.

Kara Weld
Mm-hmm, that’d be cool.

Anna
I’ve done so many clinics with two people, one person, you know, and then you get the photos and the experiences and the word of mouth and that’s how it grows. So yeah, you do have to invest.

Kara Weld
For sure, those three goes out like tenfold, feel like. You that’s what I started to see. And it’s funny, because in the beginning, you said race organizing the, Yacht Race, and you said it’s kind of a tough crowd from your perspective, which cracked me up, because I’ve never heard anybody say that. But you’re right. I mean, it’s a very male dominated scene. It certainly was, for me, started racing in that race in the late 80s. I would race and one year I was like, I think I was on the top five overall. And they didn’t even announce the women. There was no women’s class. was no, there were, there were women racing in the race, but they went through like one, two, three men. And then one, two, three, like open canoe men, you know, what it, there was, you know,

Anna
wow, nice.

Kara Weld
It wasn’t even a shout out. I think it was more like, I got the feeling that they were more not super happy about getting beaten by a girl. For sure. know I have a lot of guy friends that were like, I just don’t want you to beat me. That’s all I want today. Great. They have. They’re so good.

Anna
Right. Yeah, I’m sure that was part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

I’m so glad times have changed. mean, there’s still more growth to be had, but listening to you, yeah, I’m so glad it’s getting a bit better and that women are actually speaking up. I think that’s important to you and that’s discomfort. It’s so uncomfortable and scary to speak up in a male-dominated sport as a woman.

Kara Weld
Yeah, for sure. We could have a whole other conversation about that.

Anna
So yeah, true. All right, well, we’ll pivot from that and maybe we will have that conversation sometime. rapid fire questions for you. And these are questions that are meant to be answered in like a word or a sentence. So what is a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Kara Weld
I’ll work out in the morning.

Anna
What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Kara Weld
And I have to say, there is nothing non-negotiable for me, to be perfectly honest.

Anna
I hear you, yeah.

I hear you. So what I hear you say is like you’re you when you need to pivot, you pivot.

Kara Weld
a lot of pivot.

Anna
Yeah. Okay. Do you have a motivational book or talk that you love?

Kara Weld
No, I don’t.

Anna
What do people get wrong about you?

Kara Weld
Well, they think that John owns IR.

Anna
Right.

Kara Weld
Talk about the women’s issues.

Anna
Right?

Kara Weld
Probably on a weekly basis, I still see that. Assuming that John’s the owner, yeah. And John is not the one putting that out there to the world. Yeah.

Anna
Really?

Right, right. No, I get that.

Okay, you heard it here. Throughout the course of your life, have you considered yourself the underdog or the favorite to win?

Kara Weld
Probably a mix.

Anna
Mix. Hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Kara Weld
Hey, listen, when you did this podcast before, I was thinking it was like big water or technical steep. I thought it was a kayaking thing. So I have to rethink about how, what you mean by that.

Anna
Yeah, mean, like, do you like, you know, are you more like, I’m going to go out and practice. It’s like kind of what we’ve been talking about, actually. Are you going to catch the next steady and check it out or are you just going to run put on your skirt and run the drop?

Kara Weld
I would say that it was a real mix too, depending on the situation. Yeah, yeah, I like that question.

Anna
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Okay, what’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Kara Weld
comfort zone.

Kara Weld
I’m not very good in a comfort zone. I don’t spend a lot of time there. don’t like to be bored. don’t like routine is not comfort. I guess these are, I don’t like, yeah.

Anna
Ha!

Kara Weld
boredom is right.

Anna
Okay, you like challenge, you like discomfort.

Kara Weld
Mmm, I do.

Anna
Okay, freedom through discipline or I do what I want. Okay, in one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Kara Weld
do what I want.

Kara Weld
One word. is super cliche, I just… Raising my two boys, just raising good humans. That’s not one word.

Anna
Mm, love it. I’ll take it. Yeah. Is there anything else that you’d like to say to our listeners?

Kara Weld
I think if you just find what you really enjoy, whether it’s the challenge or the movement, the discomfort is worth putting up with to get there. I think that’s the way I think about it.

Anna
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking the time today, Kara. It’s been really fun to talk to you. So thanks for being here.

Kara Weld
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.