Anna Levesque
My guest today, Michelle Tennant Nicholson, is co-owner and chief creative officer of Wasabi Publicity, a PR firm who represents global nonprofits, causes, and people who make a difference. Michelle calls herself a storyteller to the media, spinning news stories with notables like The Wall Street Journal, Good Morning America, NPR, Time Magazine, Forbes, Fox & Friends, and many other top media venues.

She’s also an award-winning author and speaker who enjoys paddling, mountain biking, homesteading, and van-lifing with her husband, Shannon, and dog, Iris. Thanks for being here, Michelle. I’m excited to have this conversation with you.

Michelle Tennant
Thank you. am so excited because we are talking about creating your annual theme, which is something I’ve done since 1996. And so I’m so excited.

Anna Levesque
I know, that’s awesome. in the, so Michelle and I have been friends for many years and I’m very grateful to her. She has introduced me to human potential work through Landmark Worldwide. She has really introduced me to powerful work that has required me to go through my discomfort zone to get to a place where I feel powerful in creating my life and also where I can empower or help empower and guide others to create their lives, create lives that they really feel great about and in which they’re thriving. So, Michelle has really been a force in my life and I’m really excited for y’all to hear from her and excited for this conversation.

Michelle Tennant
Thanks for such a wonderful commentary on how I’ve impacted your life. That’s so sweet. Thank you.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, you’re welcome. Since this episode is airing on the 31st, I wanted to bring Michelle in because as she mentioned, she’s created her annual theme since, what did you say, 1999? 1996. And actually, I’ve been doing this with Michelle for the last several years. And we do it actually together, either the two of us or our husbands join us some years. I think that exploring this theme today in the context of the discomfort zone, because it can be really uncomfortable to commit to a goal or a theme. And I know I hear from my clients, Michelle, that they tend to be able to start strong, but finishing strong is a challenge. So

Let me start off my first question with, when I say discomfort zone, when it comes to creating your annual theme, creating goals and finishing strong, what comes up for you?

Michelle Tennant
Well, it’s all about risk. I’m going to tell a story about my mother, my 88 year old German mother. And if I go into a German accent, that’s just part of it, you guys. So around the year that I started those, the creating those themes in 1996, I was also doing personal development coursework, which you had just mentioned. And I started to go do whitewater kayaking and rafting. And it was part of what I was trying to create that year for a round of venture. So I wanted.

to create adventure. So my mother starts to freak out that I’m doing whitewater activities, right? And she actually asked me in a phone call, I’ll never forget it. And she said, Michelle, I don’t understand why you do such dangerous things. Why do you do such dangerous things? And I said, without a beat, I’ll still remember. Mom, we do not take these risks to escape life.

but rather to prevent life from escaping us. And that is, that to me is the discomfort zone. It’s the area of life where we can really savor the juice of life, you know?

Anna Levesque
Yeah, absolutely. I love that story. And I really love when you impersonate Oma in her German accent. Yes. Yes. That’s great. That’s great. Yeah. And I love your wisdom in what you just said that, you know, risk taking allows us to live life fully.

Michelle Tennant
Well, Oma sounds like that, as you know, you’ve met her. So she sounds just like that. So, you know, still has that accent.

Yes, exactly. So for me, the discomfort zone is embodied by risk. So, and then, you know, you’re mostly alive if you’re taking a risk. Speaking to everybody right now on this podcast is a risk, right? Cause that’s what gets the heart rate pumping and we get kind of excited, you know? I mean, I was that little girl in grade school, know, Catholic grade school in Louisville, Kentucky. I always got picked last for kickball.

Like I was that poor child, right? Little chunky monkey, like getting picked last. So for me to like turn into somebody who does adventure sports for fun on the weekends as a weekend warrior, that’s odd. Like what happened there, you know? And without all the personal development coursework and my master’s degree in human development and all of that, where I really learned to appreciate where risk comes in from Maslow’s… hierarchy of needs. We can get into that if you want to. But that’s really like the juice of life and being present is doing something that’s exhilarating.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah. And what kind of commitment does it take to do something that’s exhilarating? I mean, that’s the thing, right? It doesn’t just happen to us. Although I think sometimes in humanity, we can get resigned and wish and hope that something exciting happens to us or for us. And when we think about, you know, creating our themes or picking resolutions, I don’t love that word, resolutions or goals, you know, it does, it takes something.

Michelle Tennant
It really does take something. wanna, know, a recent book that I just read was by a gentleman named Michael Easter, and it’s called The Comfort Crisis. He’s the contributing editor to Men’s Health Magazine. He’s basically in his book, I’ll just give you, if you don’t wanna read it, I’ll just tell you what it’s about. So he’s basically talking about, you know, get off the couch, head outdoors, put your phone away, and occasionally push your comfort zone.

And that’s gonna lead to a less stressful and a more fulfilling life. what and it’s kind of trending people talk about it and my Japanese international PR client talked about it was this have you ever heard of misogi? Okay, so misogi is a Japanese Shinto practice you’re gonna love this Anna It’s a practice of ritual purification by washing the entire body. So it’s related Basically, it’s about transformation.

It’s about shedding old habits and beliefs and embracing a new more powerful version of yourself, right? It’s about doing something so tough once a year that it shapes how you live the rest of your 364 days. And, you know, as we’ve been creating one of my new things for the next year is traveling in a van away from my home. So we can get into that, but that’s…

That’s really my misogyny. So I think that when we look at our annual theme and what we’re doing, I think it’s really important to look at that motivation or the game behind it. you know, what’s the game that you’re gonna put at stake for yourself so that you actually stay involved and then you stay activated and interested in your own life, right? Cause I think that in our, you know, one of our first world challenges is becoming complacent and becoming bored.

I think a lot of people are just running around bored.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I think staying engaged in our lives, and that’s the thing, to stay engaged in our lives, it seems like for some, I can already hear like even in the back of my mind, well, shouldn’t that just be natural? Like to stay engaged in our own life? It’s our life, you know? And so when you’re talking about gamifying, I remember Clay Wright in his episode, he talked about

The theme was gamifying your paddling so that you stay engaged in the learning process and you stay stoked on growth and kayaking and going for goals. And so I love that. I love that idea because it is really powerful. So can you tell us more about how you do that for yourself in picking a theme and for your year?

Michelle Tennant
Yeah, I’m going to make it really easy. is, you know, I wrote my master’s thesis on the art of aha. Okay. And so I interviewed and researched the way that people come about epiphanies in their life as part of my master’s degree requirements. And I wrapped it around because I’m a publicist and try to make things pretty easy for people and takeaways and whatnot. you know, I thought about the noun of life, right? In the sentence, because I’m also a wordsmith, so in a sentence, the noun is really important, right? It is the pivotal piece of the sentence. And what is a noun? People, places, things. So if you just take your annual theme and then ask yourself, people, the people that I want to hang out with, places, where do I want to be, the things, what things am I going to put in place or let go of that will actually have this come about. Though that’s an easy thing that everybody can remember to really have their year be powerful.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, and you know what I think is one of the most powerful things you just said that people often don’t consider because we’ll often think about, okay, I have a New Year’s resolution or goal. Let’s just say a simple, like a common one. Like I’m going to get stronger and go to the gym, which is actually one of my themes. My theme this year is strength. And so you think of the time that you need to add to go to the gym, the investment in a personal trainer, all that. The things that you need to do or add at the same time in order to add something, we need to let go of other things. And I think we can be really resistant. And I think sometimes that is why folks struggle with reaching their goals because there’s that give and take. It’s not just about doing something new and adding. It’s about what do I need to take away? And I love the book, 10X is easier than 2X, I think it is, all about when you really want to go for something, you act like big, like to 10X your life, that you actually need to let go of 80 % of people, things that you do in order to focus on the 20 % that’s going to get you to your goal. And that can be daunting.

Like that’s uncomfortable to think about.

Michelle Tennant
Yeah, so I pulled together on that note, right? So let’s talk about the people, places, things. I love what you just said though, because I think it’s true, right? So first thing you need to ask yourself is who are you spending your time with? And that can be very daunting, because sometimes the people we love the most are not the, you know, they’re not going to be moving us forward to those particular goals that we have in the year.

There’s a quote by Jim Rohn who’s Tony Robbins mentor that says you were the average of the five people you spend the most time with So, you know, I love my mother speaking of my mother, right? I love her I speak to her every day I call her at lunch or I call her right after I get out of the gym, right? I teach I teach a class at the by the way, if you want to come to classes I’m there. I’m in the Fletcher. You can come. Okay. And then I call her. Today she was just, she just went off on some, negative rant and I was like, I’m done. You know, I was like, I love you. Have a great day. You know, so I didn’t want to, cause I knew it’s, it’s, you know, it’s a morning. want to, I’m creating my day. I want to make sure that what’s going into my head is positive and moves me toward the goals for today. And so I really,

You know, you can’t control what’s coming at you, but you can control what you listen to and what, know, how you’re actually interacting with that. Okay. The second thing places. research shows, and if you follow Dan Buettner with the blue zones, we all love him, right? The secret to longevity, what he says has less to do with diet or even exercise and more to do with the environment in which you live, social and physical.

So the places, right, and they all, at Landmark, they have this old saying, you have two tongues and one’s always lying. And so they’re talking about the tongue in your mouth is always lying, but the tongue in your shoe is never lying. So wherever you show up is where you really wanna be. And so if you wanna transform something, make sure that tongue in your shoe is at the right place that where you’re, you what you’re saying out of your mouth, right? I Gandhi said the secret to happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do is in alignment. So I’m always looking for that, like, okay, I’m creating this for this year, okay, what is out of alignment, what do I need to get into alignment?

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yep. Which is a great, another way of saying, what do I need to add? What do I need to need to let go of? Because anything that, and it sounds a little harsh, but you know, let it, okay. A lot of folks are into paddling on this, listening to this podcast. You know, when I read that book, the 10X book, you know, they have us do an exercise where we go back and we write out times in our lives in the past where we have 10Xed. So one of those times is when I was, podiumed at the World Freestyle Championships. And when I think about what I did to get there after college, I did let go of 80%. Like I didn’t hang out with my college friends. I went and got myself into raft guide training and then was hanging out with a completely different set of people. And then even at the rafting company, I let go of just hanging out with people because I wanted to kayak put myself with people who were kayaking all the time. I even paid, I think, a friend to run shuttle for me when I wanted to go kayaking and couldn’t find anyone to go. If you’re listening and you have goals, think about resolutions and they’re important to you. Think back to a time in your past where you really did something big for yourself and think about what you added and what you gave up.

Michelle Tennant
I love that.

Anna Levesque
I thought that was a really good exercise because it made it real. And it also was like, I’ve done this before. I can do this again.

Michelle Tennant
Yeah, I love that you say that. you know, one of my favorite authors, Toni Morrison said, if you want to fly, you have to give up the things that weigh you down. Right. So choose the tools that truly serve your purpose and growth. Right. So people who do you like, Anna, you’re talking about, right. Who’s going to be around you to really support you to be at the podium. Right. And then places. Where do I need to be? Right? And then things, right? What do you so when we’re talking about things, these might even be your smartphone or, or different rituals or structures in place. I want to say that, you know, when I was creating adventure that brought me to the Whitewater community, which brought me to you as one of my teachers, you know, because that’s how we really met as I came to the Nana Hale outdoor center, when you were actually teaching.

Right? And I felt like, cause you had been on the world’s poet stage, Eud podium, you know, at world. I just thought I was meeting a celebrity. I didn’t get really shy around celebrities. I had met a lot in my life, but I was dumbstruck around you. I just was like, my God, this is Anna. This is the Anna Levesque in person. Right? I thought you were going to just like rub off like all this good whitewater juju. And I was just going to become like this amazing paddler. So one of my favorite memories about our time together was when I went with you to Costa Rica, and it was your husband, my husband, the two of us, and you took me to the jungle. And I just like, I wanna just reflect on that, like the future that you create. And in 1996, when I looked at my college roommate at the time and said, you know what?

I really want adventure in my life. We responded to, we’d just gotten out of a landmark workshop and I said to her, we were driving in her car and there was a white water rafting commercial that came on. Two for one rafting this weekend, West Virginia, right? Fayetteville, da da da, right? I think it was, I can’t remember which outfit or it was now. I think Rivermen, maybe Rivers, no, Rivermen. And we went.

And we had a ball and I looked at her and I said, I want to learn how to kayak. want to become a raft guide. And she goes, you’re crazy. You already have a job, right? You know, and I had a good job too in Cincinnati, but that’s all I could just feel it in my heart. Like that’s what I wanted to learn. And so I made it happen. I did not go to worlds, right? For sure. Just a weekend warrior, right? But man, has it brought so many beautiful things in my life.

Friends like you, you know, I’m no longer the kid who gets picked last at kickball. I’m actually in front of the spin class, teaching the class, teaching the hit class, you know, the one in charge, surprise, surprise. It also brought my husband, right? We mountain bike, we high, right? All these things. And Costa Rica, the jungles, right? So it hasn’t only brought me that theme for 1996 but for the rest of my life and I can look back at a full life at Adventure. That’s the kind of themes that we want to create, the themes that keep on giving, you know?

Anna Levesque
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I was wondering when you were gonna mention Shannon in there, because I was like, yeah, you met your hubby while water kayaking.

Michelle Tennant
Well, yeah. not, know, I remember when he told me he had done the narrows, the green river narrows 300 plus times. mean, my heart beats still. Like there was the other guy I had dated the week prior had swam in an eddy. And I’m not saying anything about men swimming in an eddy. It’s fine. We all swim in the eddy, but Shannon looked a little more attractive that week because he was not swimming in the eddy.

Anna Levesque
God.

Okay, no comment from me.

Michelle Tennant
No, no, because Anna has definitely seen me swim in the eddy a lot.

Or she’s screaming, paddle harder!

Anna Levesque
Oh, come on. Okay, we’ll not go there.

Michelle Tennant
Well, you were my coach, you know, it’s appropriate.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever, well, that’s not true. I have told people to paddle harder, but that’s too funny.

Michelle Tennant
Thinking about that one time that Lila you and I were on was it Wilson’s and then you I can’t remember but you I mean you had a good point right I can’t even remember I had some bad habit everybody listening look if you have not if you want to do adventure sports get a coach so that you don’t form bad habits first right if I only had anything to do over again I would have had I would have hired a coach early on

Anna Levesque
Wilson, yeah. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Get advice.

Michelle Tennant
to really learn proper strokes, right? Instead of, right? So I think that in that moment where you were telling me to paddle harder was maybe you were saying paddle straighter or paddle with more upper body.

Anna Levesque
No, I remember it was to get through the holes at the bottom of some of the drops. Yes, I remember. Yeah, yeah. That was a fun day though. Yeah.

Michelle Tennant
Is that what you remember? so I mean, but those are some of the, I mean, all of the, all of the trips that I’ve taken with you and the, you know, being with women, like that’s another thing about, you know, the people, right? So when you’re around people who push you, then that’s when you really thrive. And that’s what, you know, that’s when we’re talking about, when Michael Easter is talking about us being too complacent in our modern society and then the term of misogy, right? Like, so you’re really pushing yourself and you’re growing. It’s when you know, I think one of the things you said to me once on the river, you were teaching a bunch of women and me, you said that fear is part of what makes it so special, right? Like to have that respect for the fear and that’s when we’re looking at what makes us grow and feel happy and confident and like we’re on the forward trajectory of life, it’s when we’re facing our fear and having proficiency in actually dealing with that fear.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah. And that brings up a good point because if your theme for the year, your goals scare you a little bit, that’s a good thing. Like you don’t want goals or a theme that feels easy because that’s not where the growth area is. Like the growth area is in the discomfort zone. And so, yeah, picking something that you know you’ll need to put some effort into that’s a little scary. And by scary, it could be fear of failure, it could be fear of looking bad, it could be any other type of fear. In adventure sports, we do face the fear of mortality for sure. There are other fears that we face.

Michelle Tennant
100 % and you know when you feel it in your body, your body will let you know. you know as like in a, I like to do training with heart rate zones. Something that I really experienced as a teacher of spinning classes and indoor cycling classes. So when you my heart, when I know that I’m actually approaching risk and my heart will elevate naturally. You know, I’ve done so much heart rate training that I can actually sit at one time, I was getting a, here’s another little short story. A nurse came to the house and she was at the kitchen and she put me on an EKG machine. And, and I thought, well, this would be a perfect opportunity to do heart rate games, right? Cause I’m seated and I can then actually see on the machine if I can raise and lower my heart rate by just having that relationship with my brain. And you know, a few minutes into it, she looked at me and she goes, I don’t know what you’re doing, but will you please stop? Because I was making my heart rate go up and down just like I was in a class. So it goes to show you, right, how you do have that control over your body. And there’s a really interesting TEDx. I don’t know if you’ve seen it with Amy Cuddy, but she does the, I love the Wonder Woman pose. So, you know, lot of times when I’m about to face fear, I’ll strike a Wonder Woman pose. And so it’s a, you know, it’s standing tall with your feet apart, hands on hips, your chest lifted. And I think about like confidence and strength and empowerment. And one of the things that she talks about in her TEDx, her TED talk is your body language shapes who you are.

And so if we think about that and we think about our heart rate and what our body is telling us that it’s, you know, when you adopt a posture, we now know that that posture says more about our behavior, our thought process, how our hormones are firing inside our body, how we perceive ourselves, how we perceive confidence. So if you think about power posing, right? So when we’re looking at these annual themes and envisioning what we’re gonna do next year, well then what are you doing with your body? What does it look like? What shapes, what sensory, like what are you smelling, tasting, hearing? Because this is how we experience our environment. We’re animals, right? We are a dance with the environment, whether you’re sitting or whether you’re kayaking, biking, dancing, whatever.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, there’s so much, like there’s so much that we can go into. one of the things that I want to touch on, because it’s come up twice in my mind now listening to you, is yeah, from the yogic Ayurvedic perspective, right? Ayurveda is very focused on digestion, you know, having optimal digestion or a well-functioning digestive system as one of the routes to health, right? So if you’re, because we have our gut microbiome, the gut brain access, there’s a lot of science now that shows it’s a two-way street that we have. Yeah, so there’s more and more science coming online about that. And it’s, so we have known for a long time that we have to digest what we eat, what we taste.

So that’s one of the five senses, right? We have to digest everything that comes through the five senses. So whether we have to digest what we hear, we have to digest what we see, we have to digest what we touch, what we smell, like you just mentioned. so having that, it’s just another way, another perspective on what we’ve been saying. like, so where do you want your energy to go?

Michelle Tennant
Yes.

I love that.

Anna Levesque
It takes energy to digest food. It takes energy to digest experiences. like if you’re watching television, it takes energy to digest what you’re taking in through your senses. And so again, making choices that, you know, to give up or to add things, anything that you’re taking in with your five senses, because as you just said, we, that’s how we experience the world. As human beings, we experience the world with our five senses and whether we’re aware of it or not. And this is the other thing I wanted to bring up that you’re pointing to is self-awareness, increasing, cultivating self-awareness is so important. It’s one of my eight spokes on my mental agility mastery wheel that I go over in mental agility mastery eight week course actually coming up next week. If anyone out there is interested, cause it’s really…

Michelle Tennant
Whoa, this sounds amazing.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, it’s really about building self-awareness and then going through the spokes. So when you have self-awareness and you’re aware of when something you’re taking in through any one of your five senses no longer aligns or does align, then you can shift to either increasing or decreasing, you know, your experience or with that thing. Yeah.

Michelle Tennant
You know, it’s really interesting what you’re saying about the digestion. You’ll be happy to know that just yesterday I had soup and thought of you about, I’m actually eating something warm. It’s cold weather outside and I need to have something warm. So something, you know, eating with the seasons is something that I learned from you, Anna. But the other thing I bet that people listening and I wonder, cause I…

The other thing that you’re digesting and it’s often you’re not aware of it on your phone, your TV, your radio. One of the things I always say is the stories that you consume, consume you. And I really want people to think about that because it’s very, people aren’t present. So what are you actually, your algorithms feeding you?

And that you have to digest from these algorithms. Omar called me one day, so my mother, Michelle, know, this Jenna Jamison, she is on a keto diet and she lost 80 pounds. So she’s trying to get me to get present to the keto diet and this Jenna Jamison. I was like, who is this, right? You know? And so I’m thinking, so then, you know, I think I did a hangout with my husband. was like, who is this? Mom is like, her algorithm speeding her, this woman, why is that so familiar? And then he writes, you know, it’s like, that is a porn star. That is an adult porn star. And I said, and so I was like calling my mom, was like, don’t click on that. Bye, Michelle, bye. Bye. I was like, don’t click on any information about that woman anymore, because I could just see my very Christian elderly mother getting bombarded in her algorithm with adult porn star information. So I had to tell her and she was shocked that people could see naked people on the internet. I mean she said, even though my grandchildren can see this.

Anna Levesque
Oh, God. Oh, my.

Michelle Tennant
And I said, yeah, so just be careful what you click on because the click on, know, what you click bait on is it becomes part of what you need to digest. I mean, it’s a really good point. We’re not even present to it, right?

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s true. Yeah, there’s so much. I know, and that makes it, that does make it a challenge because it could be easy. It’s much easier unless it takes less effort to just click on whatever YouTube pops up next. know, whatever TikTok the next thing is or, and just like it’s, easy to just live your life the same way you did yesterday and get the same results, right? Or to live in your, by you, know, live in my, we all have them, we’re human, our habit patterns that we are coping mechanisms that we created as kids, you know, the stories that we told ourselves about the world. And then it’s a lot less energy to change or get curious about those than it is to just keep replaying and reliving. And so that’s why it’s important if a theme kind of scares you, that’s good, because it means you’re stepping out of those, or it will at least give you opportunities to step out of those habit patterns.

Michelle Tennant
That’s right.

So, you know, to get present to those habit patterns and then you get to choose, right? You may decide I’m going to go ahead and keep doing that or you may say I’m going to recreate that. I’m going to recreate that into a game for myself and create something new. It was so funny. You talked about Clay. You know, I met Clay when I became a RAF guy at the church in Fayetteville. There was a where all the kayakers, all the cool kids were meeting and whatever and this guy Quigley that I was hanging out with took me over there and I was in with like all the know hot paddlers of the day and I asked this I was new so I asked some stupid question about rolling okay and I think Quigley I think when we left he goes don’t be asking questions like that in front of everybody right

And then of course the little, you know, grade schooler who was picked last in, you know, last for kickball came out, right? And I had to in that moment say to him, said, well, what better place to ask than that group of people that’s actually forming the future of Whitewater? He’s like, that’s a good point too, right? I was in the right place with the right people.

And as you know, didn’t, answered it. He’s like, don’t even remember what it was, but I remember he gave me a great answer, right? And I was like, that’s good. Right? So, you know, it’s also like who you’re listening to in the moment of like, don’t act like that or be that way. Well, that’s his, that was Quigley’s opinion. Hi Quigley, if you’re listening, I love you. So, so, you know, it’s quite possible he’s listening to your podcast, Anna.

Anna Levesque
It’s possible.

Michelle Tennant
all my friends from Fayetteville. Hi.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, but it’s true because I think as someone who I also was bullied as a kid and tend to be sensitive about how I look to other people and tend to concern myself with that, which again takes energy. At some point,

Michelle Tennant
Yes.

Anna Levesque
Like even to start this podcast, well, I have to put myself out there. I mean, I’ve had people say what they say about me and then I have a choice. Well, like you said, who are you going to listen to? Who are you going to put energy into? And more importantly, what is your heart calling you to do? Or that self-awareness. You could think about it as heart, a strong desire, as a dream you’ve had, you know, are you letting that pull you forward or are you letting what other people who don’t, aren’t even in your circle, what they’re saying about you, you know?

Michelle Tennant
That’s right. And you, you know, you were courageous at a time. Now it’s a little different for young women, right? But I’m 55, right? So, you know, when I started in my twenties, when I was kayaking, you know, I was like 29, 28, 29. We didn’t have women to look up to. was all, you know, very male dominated. And I remember that you were that beacon. And I know you’ve shared many times about the reason why you chose the career that you did was to empower women and you did it, right? mean, because you were shining so brightly inside that passion where you’re like, well, wait a minute, I’m feeling this particular way. I wonder if other women are feeling that way too. And so then it opens up a space for the rest of us to be authentic and to really create for ourselves. And I think that when we are authentic and really leaning into that fear space or you know really want to create this this next year and it scares me. That’s the juice of life. That’s where the happiness zone is too.

Anna Levesque
Mm-hmm. Yep. Agree. Yep. Yep. For sure. So yeah, we’ve talked about really, I’ve loved our conversation so far. Let’s get into a little bit of like more tactical in terms of what people can do to create their year. know, Michelle and I, so, okay, I love your like, people, places, and what was the last thing? Sorry, it’s things, yeah. Right, right, the noun, like that. So, you know, with people, so Michelle and I, you know, like to do this work of creating a theme and yeah, so do Shannon and Andrew. And so, you know, you go into it with the people. So find people in your life that support you and if, yeah, that, maybe want to do it with you. And if you don’t, or you could choose to do it on your own, which is fine, do it with yourself. That’s great.

Michelle Tennant
what you and I went to, we went to landmarkworldwide.com and I think every January, they’ve got one coming up in January, you can just go do a course with them on creating your year. I think I did mine last year was on a Saturday. It was open to the public. It was really great, right? And then you get to, create your life from the future backwards. Right? So then what you kind of visualize for yourself, December 31st, looking back on the year for, so my theme for next year is going to be flourish.

So I’m thinking, okay, what do I see, touch, smell, hear and taste on December 31st, 2025? Then I break that. So then I’m like, you know, what that looks like for me and for me, because we’re traveling across country in our, in this, new Sprinter van, our new Winnebago, which we only purchased because Hurricane Helene devastated our homestead dreams. So people are always like, wow, that’s resilient. Like, well.

And we even said yesterday, you my husband and I, were in Lake Lure and he said, it’d be so great to hop on our bikes and go to on weed patch today. I said, that’s true. I really miss weed patch. It’s pretty devastated. However, we wouldn’t have this van if weed patch hadn’t been devastated. We would have never. sorry everybody. It’s, it’s a, it’s a,

Anna Levesque
Weed Patch is a biking trail for those of you not familiar.

Michelle Tennant
Yeah, it’s a mountain biking trail that has a lot of switchbacks and really, really fun when it does reopen, okay? It’s not open right now because of the hurricane. But that’s how the adaptation or looking at things in context to your goals, right? So my last year goal was Joy. And he got kind of excited about Joy and he’s like, I said, we need to… constantly be enjoying and recreate, recreate ourselves, you know, and he goes like recreate. And then we just looked at it and we went, oh my goodness, here we are a year into that theme. And then we get a Sprinter van, hello, to literally recreate our days every day, geographically, to be around new people, places and things, but then also to recreate.

So next year, the other thing is, like, well, looking back at the year, so then, okay, Q1, quarter one, if you’re a business person, yay, entrepreneurs out there. So Q1, what milestone do you want? But you’re doing it from the other way. So you’re actually starting with Q4, which will be like December-ish, and then you’re go back to…

the end of summer, early fall, well, what milestones will you have created to realize what you’re seeing on the 31st? Then you’re back to Q3, Q2, Q1, and you’re working backwards. So then you’re completely laid out for the year. And then that way you can look at the year progressing and then say, okay, I need to adapt or change my people, places, things, or I can just create a new game.

It can be inside the same context of your theme, but just the particulars might look different, right? So that’s just a really easy way to kind of look at it. And I was like, okay, well, step one, just, know, I always, knows I always write things down. In fact, I think I might write a psychology today. I contribute over at psychology today for people who don’t know. And I thought this, I’m so jazzed up about this, Anna.

I’m going to write an article right about this, right? So this was, was laying it out before we got on the podcast. So start with your future vision. Then you do the people places thing. So people is the building the right relationships, right? Putting those in place, place, designing your environment. So that might be, you know, decluttering or creating a calming corner at the house, you know, where do you get creativity? know Anne and I love to go to coffee shops. Maybe you want to host an event so that you’re actually bringing those people together, whatever, right? And then tools. Like what tools have you thrive? Right? So, or fly back, you know, really going back to our Tony Morrison, you know, if you want to fly, you have to give up the things that weigh you down. Well, what’s weighing you down right now? And I…

I had some volunteer service that was really weighing me down. I’m very grateful to have let those down where, you know, my generosity wasn’t met with gratitude and so time to move on, right? So that’s my little like, you know, creating a theme, working in a box from backwards. What do you think about that?

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I love it. And I think it’s really important. I think that, you know, holding ourselves accountable is important. And again, that is a discomfort because it could be, again, fear of failure or it’s really easy. So I like the idea and I think I did hear it and it might have been in the landmark forum, something, you know, like some day is not a day on the calendar. There’s seven days in a week. And you know, I hear people, someday I’ll come on a trip with you or someday I’ll redo this or someday when I’m stronger, someday when I have more money someday. And that’s like wishing and hoping that’s going through life wishing and hoping. Whereas if you actually use your calendar, I like to use my calendar.

Michelle Tennant
Someday I’ll do a cleanse.

Anna Levesque
when I put it on my calendar, it helps to hold me accountable. And like, it’s not to say that, it’s not about beating yourself up if that day comes and you said you would have reached a certain goal by that day. You still want to look, well, okay, maybe it doesn’t look how I thought it would, but what does it look like? Like, what have I accomplished? You know, what, and then you can make a new choice because, when we make a choice, it doesn’t mean we have to make a choice for like ever. You make a choice and if you don’t like the outcome or the outcome isn’t quite what you thought, then you can choose again. And so when you think about accountability, I really love the metaphor of the river banks. A lot of you have heard me say this. I just love it so much how the river exists because of the boundaries of the banks, because of that discipline that directs the flow of the water and having accountability, having those riverbanks will help direct the flow of your attention, your people, place, and things towards what’s important to you. But without that, then it’s just kind of like too easy to kind of the water to just dissipate or for your goals to just dissipate, you know? So.

Michelle Tennant (45:48.195)
Yes, really, you know, and a lot of people will say, well, I’m afraid that I’m going to fail. failure is feedback. That’s all it is. So whether you were, you know, I love the, I love the bank analogy, right? That it keeps you focused and accountable. And it, we all swim on the river, right? Swimming is part of paddling. It’s just part of it. No, no paddlers, you know, we,

We’re only in between swims is a saying that we all say, right? And that’s the same thing with life. We’re only in between failures and failures just feedback. That’s all right. Right. So the, the thing that I love is, when we look at failure as a feedback loop, then you can, you can then look at your milestones that you’re trying to achieve for the year.

Anna Levesque
Yep. Yep.

Right?

Right. Yep.

Michelle Tennant
And then maybe it’s not quarter one that you’ve achieved that milestone, but maybe you’ve achieved it in quarter three, or maybe even you carry it over to the next year. Doesn’t matter, right? You’ve created it. But a lot of times people say they can’t, know, like, just, I remember in high school, my college, or excuse me, in college in Chicago, my college roommate gave me a fortune teller gift. And I thought, this is ridiculous. It was going to tape it and whatever. But I just had fun with it more like a party parlor game than really taking it seriously. What she said came to pass. But you know what? I don’t think it was because she could see the future. I think it was the power of suggestion. Because if we think about it, right now I could start to visualize what I’m going to make for dinner.

Isn’t that part the creative part? And then we get out the ingredients and then we actually make the dinner. That’s all we’re doing here with our annual theme. That’s all we’re doing by reaching out into the future and working backwards. And by the way, that, you know, reverse engineering your best year is what I did at the Landmark. They had an event last January and I just loved it, right? Cause I was like, okay, what pictures am I going to hold of myself in my hand? You know, what, what do I look like? What do I, what am I experiencing? What am I hearing? What kinds of podcasts am I listening to to make this? So for example, we completely started consuming on YouTube some van life, you know, Helene happened. Our homestead was devastated in Lake Laura. So that dream of retiring there. Okay. That’s definitely put on hold. As soon as we decided to buy that Sprinter van and decide, okay, we’re just gonna chase mountain biking Meccas around the globe. That’s when we just started to pull in all those people, places, and things. And like, know, instead of watching the news in the morning, we watch a YouTube channel and some, you know, what other couples are doing on their travels. And we love the whole, I know the whole,

Peter and Kathy Holcomb are not related to your husband, Andrew Holcomb, but we’ve really been.

Anna Levesque
No, but they’re related to Abby who has been on this podcast who has her own Winnebago as well, which is pretty cool. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. They’re great.

Michelle Tennant
nice. Shout out to Abby and her family. So I’m, that would be another, I’m now fangirling him, that Peter Hokel. I was like, this morning I was watching his video, just going, he’s so sweet, like so agreeable. What a nice person. I would like to meet with him. I would like to, you know, hang out with him. Like that’s the kind of visualization, you know, then all of a sudden you find yourself inside some type of campsite or whatever. And you’re like, my God, is that.

Peter, I’ll come over there. I that’s, I know that it sounds hokey, right? And it sounds cheesy, but that’s all we’re doing on a daily basis when we’re making our meals. So why not create your life in the same way? Put the ingredients together and see what you want. You know, go after it, right?

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. I want to get to rapid fire questions. One last thing that I want to say about what you just said is about failure being feedback. Failure is also a clue for you to look at, okay, am I really aligning my actions, words, thoughts with my goal? Do I need to realign? Or what’s been missing?

Michelle Tennant
Yes.

Anna Levesque
Or again, what do I need to let go up? again, it’s in our all or nothing attitude kind of culture, it’s like, I didn’t hit my Q1. I should just give it all up. Like, who cares? You know, I just suck or whatever. And so instead just taking that and being like, okay, time for a realignment, feedback, realign, you know?

Michelle Tennant
I love moving from free feedback to real line. And I don’t know if people are really wanting to be motivated to really stick with something. I highly recommend that movie Free Solo that was Alex, I think is his last name, right? It chronicles his rope-less ascent of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park.

One of the things that’s interesting about that whole experience in his documentary is he undergoes a functional MRI scan and it reveals that his brain, his amygdala, has minimal activity in it. And it could be the reason why he associates, you know, he doesn’t process fear like the average person. So a lot of times when we are failing and then we have to realign,

We’re not thinking that we have a different body than somebody else does. And how can we be present to our body? Right? I’m terrified of heights. However, I like exposure therapy. So I will go be in something with heights so that I can work on my heart rate games. I can work on my fear center. I can start to work on you know, managing my breath around the cortisol uptick in my body, right? So, but I have a different body than somebody who’s been on the world podium like you. And so these are the, you know, the journey, the process of like, okay, you know, it’s all right, Michelle, this is what I tell myself. It’s all right. You couldn’t walk at the age of 38, right? The first time my back seized up, I was 24, right? So I have, a really severe scoliosis in my back that causes me chronic pain and I know that about myself and I can give have compassion for myself when I have to just take it a little slower or I have to ask myself, know, well, I can’t do it like that man or woman, but I can do it like I am right and I can and I’m still doing it. I just wanted to add that a little bit so that people have like

Hey, you know, I don’t need to be superwoman. I just need to be me. All right, rapid fire. I’m ready.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Love that. No, I love that. Just need to be you. Exactly. Okay. Rapid fire. These are designed to be answered in a word or a sentence. Morning ritual that sets you up for success.

Michelle Tennant
20 minutes of cardio, strength, and then stretching. 20, 20, 20.

Anna Levesque
Nice. Love it. What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Michelle Tennant
Learning something new every day. It’s got to be ongoing learning. So that and exercise every day.

Anna Levesque
Got it. Cool. What’s a favorite motivational book or talk?

Michelle Tennant
I’ve got, I’m quoted in a calendar. I kid you not. The risk, the only risk in life is living a risk-free life.

Anna Levesque
Nice.

Anna Levesque
Love it. Love it. Okay. What do people get wrong about you?

Michelle Tennant
I am a, they think I’m an extrovert, but I’m actually equal introvert. I spend most of my life as an introvert. I score evenly on those Myers-Briggs test. So you think I’m an extrovert? Surprise! I’m actually an introvert.

Anna Levesque
Okay. Throughout the course of your life, have you thought of yourself as the underdog or the favorite to win?

Michelle Tennant
underdog I pick last for kickball give me a break always last even when I podium this past year on my mountain Viking race I was like what

Anna Levesque
Well, that’s true. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Hard.

That’s awesome. Okay, hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Michelle Tennant
hard, hard moves in easy water all the time. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Okay. Okay. What’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Michelle Tennant
risk.

Anna Levesque
Oh, interesting. I thought you were going to say latte because that’s… You and I are both latte people. Okay.

Michelle Tennant
Lots of, coffee. Cafe, cafe.

But risk is it’s really, yeah, it’s an expression of risk, yeah.

Anna Levesque
Okay? Freedom through discipline or I do what I want.

Michelle Tennant
disciplined to do what I want. See if you’re fully disciplined you have all that freedom to do whatever you want.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, just like those riverbanks within the discipline of the riverbanks, the water flows and moves and dances. All right. In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Michelle Tennant
Yes.

Michelle Tennant
In one word.

Michelle Tennant
fulfilled.

Anna Levesque
Love it. Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners, Michelle?

Michelle Tennant
Well, really, know, one of things that we didn’t talk about was my own journey with complex PTSD. And if somebody is listening to this and they feel like they can’t because they’ve got some trauma in their background and that is what makes them really different. Or maybe they’ve got, maybe what you’re going through is some type of mental challenge. I just want you to know that there’s always help.

And that’s what I want people to know. I write on complex PTSD at Psychology Today because it’s something that I’ve had to go through with my own life. And trauma changes your brain makeup. So we talked about the amygdala today. It also changes your body, the body shape, the way the body interacts with its environment. Just like a tree changes and adapts to its environment. And maybe there’s some type of invasive species that’s affecting that tree.

You are the same in your environment. So I just want people to know that there’s always support, there’s always help around you. Just ask for it. You have to ask for it.

Anna Levesque
Got it. Thank you, Michelle. Thanks for sharing that. Important. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here. I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope those of you listening got some good stuff from it for, you know, creating your theme, creating your best year yet. And yeah, thanks, Michelle. Just appreciate you so much.

Michelle Tennant
Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah, my pleasure.

I would now thank you so much. would love to, you know, if somebody has gotten value out of today’s conversation, you create something amazing for yourself next year, however many years into the future, I don’t care. I want to hear what you’ve created. Write to me at michelletenant.com is just my name. Write to me and let me know, you know what? I never did this. And then I did this after that conversation with you and Anna, that would just make my day in my year. So yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, ditto, ditto.

Michelle Tennant
Let’s just let us know that what you’ve created for yourself, because if you don’t have a community, we’re your community.

Yes. Yeah. Thanks, Anna. I love you.

Anna Levesque
Yep, yes, absolutely. Thanks for that. all right. Thanks, Michelle. Love you too.