Anna Levesque
My guest today, Isaac Levinson, started whitewater kayaking at the age of 12 and loved that it allowed him to escape from the city life in Atlanta where he grew up. He joined a slalom club, started racing, and eventually made the US National Slalom Team where he traveled and competed internationally. His passion for adventure and the rush of exploring rivers consumed a big part of his late teens to mid-20s.

Now in his mid thirties, he considers himself a multi-sport athlete focusing on air, wind, and water sports. In 2020, he began to pursue a career in aviation and is currently an instrument rated commercial pilot and just starting to apply for jobs in this field. Last year, he was faced with a life-changing autoimmune disease diagnosis that he is currently navigating physically and mentally. Isaac, thanks for being here.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, it’s great to be on.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. So I like to start each interview with the same question. That is when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you?

Isaac Levinson
For me, the discomfort zone can be multiple things. There’s a physical element to that and then a mental element to it as well. So like pain, injuries or illness, I think is kind of what initially comes to mind with discomfort.

Anna Levesque
What is the biggest difference for you between physical discomfort and mental discomfort?

Isaac Levinson
I think physical discomfort for me, I like initially think to just like an injury. broke my back kayaking, about 10 years ago, and that was a pretty traumatic, intense, acute feeling of discomfort. And then for me, mental discomfort is more like prolonged and, something that builds up over time potentially. That’s what initially comes to mind. yeah, you know, it’s just so many things like being exposed on a river or in the sky or out in the ocean. There’s like an element of discomfort with a lot of things. So it’s a really, I think it’s a super broad feeling, but it’s definitely pretty prevalent.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I think that’s really interesting that you’re talking about the physical pain can be like acute and that the mental or discomfort can like build up over time. You know, maybe it makes me think also like there’s I mean, I’d love to hear more about actually when you broke your back because that was like a an incident.

And then you did have prolonged discomfort, I imagine, in your physical body and in your mental body, because there’s also the PTSD that can come with that for some folks, which can be prolonged discomfort or the discomfort of being injured when you’re a type A personality athlete and love to be doing stuff. Yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, there’s like so much to it and yeah, all of that is true. yeah, with the back injury, I was paddling Raven Fork in Cherokee, North Carolina. It’s a really famous river in the Southeast. And I was 24, kind of right in that prime or what I would feel like is my prime. yeah, I learned like so much from that experience as far as, yeah, like everything. I learned a ton about myself in that process and definitely through a lot of pain and discomfort and I think you can just learn a ton in those times.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Was it off of like Big Boy, the big waterfall? Yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, was on, yeah, yeah, it was on big boy. I run that like probably 20 times and I think it was definitely complacency, bad luck, bad line. Like I boofed it. You know, there’s that part is on me, but I probably, you know, and moving forward from that, I’ve been way more thoughtful about making decisions to do things that are consequential. So I think it like really helped for me where I’m at now is like a lot different as far as pre-meditating and yeah just trying to be cautious I guess.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s interesting. How tall is that waterfall again? Is it 60? 60 feet wide?

Isaac Levinson
No, Big Boys is like in the 35 to 40 foot range, like from moving, you know, what I took away from that or yeah, I mean, I guess more like in the technical paddling side of it. It’s that’s the range that is actually more, um, like dangerous for back injuries because you’re, it’s not like a vertical deep pool that you’re just paddling, you know, setting your angle and having a perfect waterfall line. It’s like this, like you have to be perfect and 45 it like come off at like just the right angle. And yeah, that day I caught a little bit more of the shelf and just landed flat. It didn’t even really feel like a bad line in the air and then just instantly kind of knew. yeah, it’s so long ago. mean, 10 years as far as like memories go kind of start to fade, but I still remember that that pain and discomfort and realization, you know, that’s another part of it is realizing that what that means not only to be in pain, but like for that time in my life, like not paddling and pursuing my, you know, passion was a lot of like mental discomfort, knowing that what my future would be like without kayaking for the next foreseeable future.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, that’s really, that’s really hard, Life changing, for sure. You know, what’s interesting, I was just in Chile and I was paddling a river called the Upper Palguin, which is, I don’t know if you’ve ever paddled it, probably, but it’s like class four, just amazing waterfalls. And I had also paddled it in my 20s.

And it’s interesting because one, I came off the seal launch super flat and I was like, that was not good. There is no aeration. And now I’m 50. And so it’s all this repetitive sitting in a kayak, taking hits. never was someone who ran like the tallest or the hardest even then though, like the repetitive, right? And so when I hit, I definitely felt it in my spine. And so then when we got to the 20 footer, there’s a 20 footer, very well aerated. It is one of those where pretty much I think you can roll off the lip, but I just was like, you know, where I’m at now in my boating, if I land weird, you know, like on my edge or flat or whatever, like it’s…

and quote unquote easy waterfall. But then if there’s a weird landing and I tweak myself, then I’m out like for the rest of this week, I’m out. Like I teach kayaking for a living and it will affect me. so not that the portage is super easy cause it kind of sucks, but you know, making those choices. Do I have the skill? Absolutely. You know, it’s like, what do I want to accomplish here?

And in the big picture of my life. I think that becomes more important to me. I don’t know. I kind of heard that in what you were saying about like, we call it becoming more cautious and it’s true. We’re more cautious on the river. However, it is about aligning ourselves, I think, with the bigger picture of what we want, maybe.

Isaac Levinson
Definitely. Yeah, that’s really relevant right now. So I live in White Salmon and the Little White’s the backyard run here and that has Spirit Falls. It’s 30 footer. And I made a conscious decision two or three years ago to stop running it regularly to preserve my body. I have, you know, multiple back injuries actually. And, and yeah, that’s been like a really interesting thing to navigate with my ego.

Um, but also it’s been really, um, like a powerful experience to like make that decision and, and prolong my paddling career. And yeah, I mean, I totally respect. Yeah. Where, where you’re at at 50 still running waterfalls or yeah. Yeah. You know, I want to, I want to be there. I’m 35 now and, and know that that’s kind of what it means. And once I started doing that, I was able to increase the amount of days per year that I’m kayaking. I probably have run that waterfall over a hundred times already. So it’s like the experience that I was getting from it was actually more fear than enjoyment. Cause every time I would tee up to run it, I’m like, don’t hurt your back. If you hurt your back, you’re not kayaking for two weeks. So, but another cool little side note is that I actually ran it again a few days ago for my first time in three years, because I set a goal to run it at high water. I’d never run it at a certain, you know, we had some really good flows for the last week and I’ve always wanted to run it at like, you know, proper high flows and. I’ve been training hard and feeling good and felt right. And, and, and ran it and it was all good and it felt great, like physically and, and mentally. And yeah. So it’s like kind of cool to go full circle.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s awesome. Congrats. That’s way cool. Yeah. And yeah, that’s great. I love how you said that then you could like, you stopped paddling at all, like consistently all the time, but then you could increase your days on the river enjoying. And then it’s not like you can never run it. And, and like you said, probably running it once in a while actually makes it more like, yeah, yeah.

Isaac Levinson
That felt sweet.

Totally, it feels special. Yeah, but it’s definitely been, you know, an interesting thing to navigate with like my ego because all the people that I kayak with regularly run it most of the time. So I’m always the guy that’s hopping out of the boat and running around, which is actually harder, like physically, you know, I have less risk of hurting my back, but definitely takes more time and takes more energy.

So like there’s that part of navigating it, which has been like a cool lesson and like ego check and make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons. And yeah, it’s been, it’s been cool. I, and it’s also sweet to like still be respected from my peers for making that decision. You know, it’s like actually, yeah, I get very little like pushback or questioning from the people that I look up to, that I want to paddle with, that are sending it all the time. So that’s been a cool lesson and it feels good.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, we have both. Yeah, that’s awesome. So important to surround yourself with folks that support you in paddling and in life. Right? Yeah. What would you say is the biggest… Like in terms of when you say it’s hard on your ego and you’re learning about yourself,

What is, like, if you start going down the road of like, I used to be able to do this, I should be able to do this, you know, maybe the fear of being judged, is there a strategy or something that helps you like get back on track for remembering like why you’re out there and doing it for yourself?

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, I mean, it’s simply that just doing what feels right and what feels good, like making sure that I’m doing it for myself and not like what, you know, is perceived on social media or through my peer group as like the cool thing to do. It’s like making sure that my intentions are, are good and I’m fully enjoying it where like for a while or like I would push myself to run waterfalls. And after my back injury, I did multiple waterfall trips. ran, you know, 50, 60 foot tall, consequential waterfalls post back injury. And it never really felt quite the same as pre back injury. And I think just having the realization of making sure that it feels right and like, what’s the point if it’s not enjoyable where before it was pure enjoyment. loved rolling up to the lip of a big waterfall and staring it down and like free falling in a kayak. And yeah, I didn’t have a back injury. So that feeling of like what it actually means to make a mistake and knowing that my back is now compromised, like I have a compression fracture in my mid thoracic and yeah, it’s not, it’s stable, but it’s not something that I want to make worse. So that’s kind of where that came from.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, listening to you makes me think of, you know, it’s kind of like the grief of life that we get older. And, you know, if we if we’re doing this kind of stuff at a high level, we’re going to have different experiences and we’re probably going to land weird or have, you know, big, bigger accidents and, and that really, and given, you know, everyone so far that I’ve interviewed or people I know, from being in the industry for 30 years. I think that it’s just part of life to go through these types of, it’s not just part of life to break your back. There are several, but the idea is that there’s gonna be things that send you on a different trajectory. And we can either suffer more, like be more in the discomfort zone and suffer more by resisting that and wishing it were not like that or suffer because it is hard and grieving our old selves or what we used to be able to do and then moving on to what is possible.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, I’m more or less grateful for having had that experience. I think that it’s helped me navigate the rest of my life. I actually had, met my fiance through that injury on a Canyons trip. I know that you have a connection with Canyons as well. if I went down the path that I was on before I broke my back, I don’t think I would have ended up on that trip.

Yeah, so was like life changing in a positive way from that as well. And I think it’s just an important thing to keep in mind when you’re like dealing with something like that is just lean into it and see where it takes you. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Makes me think of the expression like when one door closes, another opens, as long as our job is to walk through them. And if we’re resisting the new doors, then yeah, they don’t happen. yeah, yeah, that’s cool. What is the biggest thing you’ve learned about yourself through, you know, discomfort in your life, whether it’s the discomfort of facing fear, like running those waterfalls back when you were like, you know, totally loving it or going through an injury or even pursuing, you know, flying now. What is something that you’ve learned about yourself by challenging yourself?

Isaac Levinson
I mean, I think I’ve learned that by challenging myself is usually where I feel the most sense of accomplishment and the biggest reward. think through that stuff is, yeah, just been a good lesson to lean into it and see where it takes you.

Anna Levesque
So I know it sounds like you’ve not to harp on the injury, but also recently you were diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. So that is also uncomfortable. So what is your, and you’ve done a lot of adventure sports, which is all about facing fear and moving through it. So what are some strategies that you’ve used for moving through fear, moving through even disappointment, discomfort?

Isaac Levinson
Totally. I think moving through fear and discomfort, I think outside of the autoimmune diagnosis, I think about the enjoyment that I get out of those experiences and make sure that my intentions are right with that. And yeah, just trying to embrace that moment. Like I really like that feeling of putting myself out there, whether it’s on the river or recently getting into like downwind foiling. I went to Maui and had this like open ocean experience that was way out of my comfort zone. Ended up like quite far offshore on a run, kind of like missed the lineup of trajectory where I should have been heading. And the seas were really super big, like 10 feet with 50 foot, sorry, 50 mile an hour winds. And I ended up super deep, like deep, dark blue water with 15 foot tiger sharks. I didn’t see any, but they’re out there and whales. And it was like one of those experiences that I was so scared and uncomfortable that I had to embrace it and just be like well. Well, you’re here. This is wild Enjoy it and I think that I have had those experiences through kayaking on you know expeditions and like where you’re just so remote and and deep and I have learned to just love that experience like I truly like that’s what I search for and in a weird way and I Don’t really know like how to You know pinpoint like how I’ve ended up there, but I just try to remind myself in those situations to enjoy it. Like that’s such a cool place to be. You’re like out in the middle of the ocean, like in with like a tiny board, riding on a foil with a paddle, with a life jacket, but relying on my skill and knowledge to navigate that and make it back to shore. And that’s just like really cool, profound experiences for me in those situations.

So it’s kind of like disconnecting and just reminding myself to enjoy it.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Well, it sounds to me like you choose, like it’s a powerful choice you make. And I think that sometimes as humans, like we forget, like that we can choose to enjoy something like you’re saying. And some people are like, there’s no way because you think, I don’t know, you think of like uncomfortable outdoor experiences. Even something as simple, because this is super simple, but like, okay, it starts raining and you’re caught in the rain out there. Most people are like, this sucks, it’s uncomfortable. And then you can also just choose to say, wow, it’s raining, amazing. So grateful for this rain. let me… Yeah, it’s a choice. So that’s what I hear you saying, which is really powerful. And interestingly enough, it isn’t a strategy that you learn, it’s just something you decide. And it changes…for sure.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, yeah mindset. It’s pretty wild.

Anna Levesque
It’s like a radical form of acceptance. Like, here I am. This is awesome. I’m going to decide that this is awesome. Easier said than done.

Isaac Levinson
And then coming back, yeah. And then coming back to the autoimmune diagnosis and yeah, so I was diagnosed with Graves’ disease, which is a hyperthyroid condition. And yeah, listeners can look into that if they’re curious, but you know, that wasn’t a choice and definitely a really prolonged time of discomfort physically and mentally for me. So like that was a whole nother lesson that I had to learn or go through and lean into. And, I’ve, personally. Yeah. Relyed on, friends and family and yeah, just to gather perspective, I actually, one of my best friends, was diagnosed with, stage four testicular cancer a few years ago and went through that and, you know, drawing from his perspective to keep my, you know, inner dialogue in perspective of what I was going through, think helped, helped a lot. But yeah, I mean, I think also, you know, using mindfulness and meditation, all of like these skills that I’ve learned to deal with these like exposed situations in adventure sports or extreme activities, I think has helped me navigate this time in my life. yeah, what’s interesting, what comes to mind is I think that a lot of…

like adventure seeking, high intensity athletes or people use those experiences that I was talking about, like out in the ocean or on the river or in nature, whatever, whatever your choice is of activity to cope with discomfort and which is kind of interesting way to look at it. But yeah, to

Like that’s like my coping mechanism. That’s my meditation getting out on the river. It’s like what forces me to disconnect from those thoughts and like the things that I’m working through and in whether it’s an injury, a back injury or shoulder, any kind of injury or autoimmune diagnosis, learning how to get to that place through like meditation, breath work, walking, know, just moving meditations or for me, like I really enjoy sauna and stuff like that. found the sauna is kind of has this extreme element to it that kind of forces you to quiet the thoughts and go internal. And yeah, to me, that stuff has really helped. And I’ve learned that, you know, just through injuries and, and, and my path. So, yeah, just kind of leaning into everything and using everything that I’ve learned through adventure sports, injury to find that place that I’m comfortable.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah, there’s a lot there. Like it also reminds me, cause my husband, Andrew had a back injury, which actually your, your dad helped him out with. when he, this was several years ago, he had a herniated disc or bulging disc and L4, L5, and he approached the healing process. Like he approached training for a big race, you know?

And so he couldn’t kayak, but he could do yoga and go to chiropractic and walk. And he, you know, he did those things on a schedule, very self-disciplined. Cause again, kind like you were saying earlier, you know, that, you know, or maybe it wasn’t you. Someone was saying like they, they see, or you were saying the fun that you will get in the end. So it helps you just stay disciplined that he, you know, the result he wanted was to get back in a boat without having surgery if possible. And he was able to do that because he approached it like, here I am, I’m going to train for this, which is really interesting. And I kind of hear that. Yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, I remember that. Well, yeah, I remember Andrew’s injury well. yeah, while we’re bringing up Andrew, he’s always been like a huge source of inspiration and like one of my like idols, maybe mentors as well. Like back when we were racing, he was always…

He really is like probably the most humble person that I’ve like competed against in the green race. He won the green race prior to the first one that I won. yeah, just watching him approach it with humility definitely was something that stuck with me. And then watching him go through his injury and not be able to race. And, you know, I was actually the one to take the win the year after, you know, because he was injured. Like, that’s probably why I won is because he wasn’t racing at that time. And yeah, it just like always rubbed off on me to like watch him go through that. And it’s just cool to have those kind of people in front of you. So, yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I’ll tell him that. Yeah, it’s true. And he walked in, he hiked in that year to watch and cheer people on actually. Yeah, yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Which is so hard, yeah. I’ve had, you know, I still deal with injuries last year and like with my autoimmune diagnosis and everything going on, I kept like wanting to do these races actually like right before I figured out what was going on. I had been planning on doing the green race. I flew back to the East coast and something was just not feeling right and it kept getting worse and worse. And that’s really when I got blood work and found out that I had a hyperthyroid condition just like two weeks before the green race and I had been training and yeah, it was just like off the table at that point. I was super weak and that lost like almost 15 pounds in like, in like less than two months and.

Yeah, it was, it was really like hard to like not do the green race and even harder now with the recent floods. Like that was my last opportunity to not only do the green race, but see that river, which is a whole thing in itself. And then moving forward from that, I kind of started treating the Graves’ disease through various different ways and got back to paddling, not full strength, but to the point where I could do it. And then right before the little white race, my back acted up. and I wasn’t able to do that. So it’s just one of those things to, yeah, sit out things is another thing that is really uncomfortable for me to, like all my friends were in town racing, enjoying perfect flows, perfect weather. And you’re just like,

Man, I’m watching it from the sidelines. Like it’s that, that’s something that I’ve had to learn how to cope with as well. That’s definitely a lot of like, I find a lot of discomfort when I’m in that situation. And yeah, you have to do some internalizing and deep, deep dives to, get through that with, with some humility. So yeah, it’s a lot.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, it is a lot. It sounds like what you’re saying is you have really been honing your skill at dealing with disappointment. dealing with, I thought it was gonna look like this and now it’s gonna look different. So what’s you’re, like when you say doing a deep dive, like what are some things that you kind of tell yourself or that you practice. Maybe you go into the sauna. don’t know. I love sauna, cold plunge. agree that is such an awesome strategy.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great, it’s a great little tool. yeah, stuff like that is definitely what, what I’ll do. But recently or in that situation, I just made a decision to kind of shift my focus and not really, like think about the race. kind of made a decision, okay, this isn’t happening. My body isn’t stoked right now. And it’s just not what

It’s not what’s happening for me. And in retrospect, I kind of wish that I had just when I had my autoimmune diagnosis and was going through all that, that I just decided to take a step away from racing and like not even consider it because yeah, I think getting it’s another like kind of ego thing where I’m like my ego wants to be there and compete. I’m still like competitive and have potential. I think even in that situation, maybe not to win, but to have a good result. so there’s some ego involved in that. But in that situation, I actually, you know, with my aviation career, which is something we haven’t really discussed yet, but I have this other thing that I’m focused on right now that I was able to do. So I actually went on a little trip that weekend. It was great weather and was able to, yeah, get in the plane and go somewhere and just disconnect from it and be like, wow, okay, this is what’s in front of me. This is possible right now. This is really cool. I’m stoked on it. And I’m grateful that I have this and it’s like, it wasn’t just like put there, you know, something that I’ve also had to work through a lot of uncomfortable like times to get to that point. And yeah, so just lean into something else in that situation is kind of how I have been coping with it. But I’ve wanted to be more like retrospective. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but like I said, I kind of wish I just took a step away from competitive kayaking during that time in my life and not put that pressure on myself because it’s unnecessary. It’s unnecessary discomfort. And yeah, trying to work on that.

Anna Levesque
Why do you think you had put pressure on yourself? Like what made you keep wanting to do the racing?

Isaac Levinson
I mean, I love it. Like I love competing. I love the community and I’ve, I think had a lot of those like high highs and low lows from racing, from winning my dream races and doing as good as you could hope to from epic failures. And yeah, I mean, but, I love it. love setting a goal and accomplishing it. I think that there’s a dopamine fix from doing well or achieving a goal. I think that’s why I continue to do it.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s hard to step away from that.

Isaac Levinson
It really is. mean, you know, I’m 35 and I don’t know too many people past my age that are really like competitive and doing well in it. So I know that there’s that like aging out and getting back to Andrew. I think that he gracefully went from being one of the top competitors to a top 10, top 15 guy with a smile on his face with like achieving personal goals setting a personal goal, not really like a, want to win and be recognized as the top athlete, but setting a personal goal that you’re happy with, whether that’s just to show up and not get frustrated or to, yeah, just, you know, whatever your goal is and think that that’s just like a something that I’m trying to keep in mind and have kept in mind and makes my racing and those experiences feel so much better. Cause like, back in the day when I was trying to win the green race, it was intense. It’s like, you’re just putting so much pressure on yourself and it’s nice to like not have that and just like, yeah, when that last green race that I was trying to go to before the diagnosis or during the diagnosis of Graves’ disease, my goal was not to win at all. Like I just wanted, I actually wanted to go to the green race with no pressure and enjoy it and drink a beer on the rock with you and see all my friends and not be that intense dude that’s like, wanna win and if I didn’t have a good run, then I’m bummed. Like, yeah, so, yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s what makes it sustainable. know, like for Andrew too is that, yeah, you make your own goals and you go out there. I actually wish I had more of that attitude when I was competing at a high level in freestyle and I was like on the podium a lot. think I actually would have had a better time not putting so much emphasis on the results.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, and if you look at any of the best real like goats, Dane Jackson, those kind of people, and I have many examples of those kind of people in my life, but they’re the ones that are actually having fun regardless of the result. Not to say that they’re not competitive and that they don’t want to win, but they’re able to enjoy the total experience, and that’s been really like a goal for me because I wasn’t always that person. Definitely lost my cool with not having good results a lot. And yeah, it’s part of it. And yeah, it’s cool to have examples of how to do it right.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. And Andrew’s always been good at that. And so it was actually trying on our relationship because, and we’ve talked about this on the podcast before, that like, if he did well and I didn’t do well at a freestyle competition, I’d be in tears. And, you know, it was hard on him. It was hard on me and it was hard on the relationship. So it was good. I’m glad we went through that with, we worked through that, but.

It’s no fun to put. It’s like you collapse yourself. I would collapse my self-worth with my performance, which is ridiculous because we’re so much more than our performance, our injuries, our diagnoses, you know, all of that stuff.

Isaac Levinson
Whole nother dynamic.

Yeah.

Anna Levesque
So true. So when you’re starting to learn to fly, did you apply any whitewater strategies to when you were learning to fly? Was there any crossover?

Isaac Levinson
Definitely. mean, I think anytime I’ve learned anything new, I adopted the same techniques that I learned to be, you know, successful racer, kayaker in general, just training ethic, visualizations. Yeah, just taking it, taking it seriously and, and yeah, so there’s that element to it. But then there’s also, there’s a flying or aviation in general, whether that’s, fly paragliders as well as airplanes and paragliders are more like interactive with nature and weather and you’re not relying on a mechanical element like an engine and airplane. So getting into airplane flying, you’re then relying on, like I said, the mechanical element and managing that like risk and acknowledging that there is a risk with it and trying to mitigate that through that thoughtfulness, whether that’s in aviation, it’s like usually like pre-flighting and going through all the checklists to make sure that everything is in order. Yeah, just being thorough and thoughtful, I think is probably what’s helped me the most in that. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s cool that you, go ahead.

Isaac Levinson
I was saying it’s just interesting how much you can draw from different things that are so different but also relatable.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I like to tell my clients how you approach kayaking is how you approach life and vice versa. So there’s a lot that we can learn.

Isaac Levinson
It’s, yeah, it’s probably next to kayaking. It’s my favorite activity to, especially like with the cross-country element. I always tell my friends or kayakers that it’s like river running in the sky. You get to kind of put in, get in the air and get on a line and go like explore a mountain range or landscape with like, you know, only relying on your craft and skills and knowledge.

Yeah, it’s just like, yeah, pretty incredible. But I kind of have to refrain from talking about it because all my kayaking friends are gonna, they’re tired of hearing about Evan and I talking about paragliding on shuttles. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Really? That’s funny. It sounds super cool.

Do you have any questions for me?

Isaac Levinson
yeah, I mean, my question, I’ve seen you like navigate like this longevity for a long time. And, yeah, what, what are the tools that you found to be most beneficial to continue to paddle and be active and fit, you know, 15 years older than me. I want to get there and, and beyond, as I’m sure you will as well. And yeah, what have you found that’s been the most beneficial. One thing, maybe. The one thing.

Anna Levesque
Okay, if I to choose one thing, it would be self-awareness, cultivating self-awareness and then listening to that self-awareness, whether it’s my body or my mindset being like, like I was saying, that 20-footer, not today, or self-awareness of my body. Need massage, I need chiropractic, I need PT right now.

And okay, so two things, self-awareness and self-discipline. And not self-discipline like the core, like I’ve got to paddle every day, but self-discipline, I need to incorporate routines and self-care, meaning like other stuff that supports my paddling.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah. Sometimes I find that that self-discipline is actually doing less than more. Like the discipline to not go kayaking for me or like do another workout is probably more relevant than actually the discipline to go do it. So yeah, kind of interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Well said. Yep. Yep. For sure.

Okay. Are you ready for rapid fire questions?

Isaac Levinson
Now let’s do it.

Anna Levesque
Okay. What’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Isaac Levinson
Hot shower and breath work.

Anna Levesque
Nice, okay, I’m gonna ask a clarifying question. So what kind of breath work, like what’s your favorite breath work practice?

Isaac Levinson
My personal favorite breathwork practice is kind of something that I think I’ve developed myself. It’s like a bit of Laird Hamilton’s like XPT and my buddy Adam Spillman, who’s the cancer survivor that I was talking to. I’ve worked with him a lot and kind of developed my own routine. But for me, so it’s breath apnea, but I think it prepares me for whitewater or like water sports. So I’m doing some like breath holds. And I think that that intensity allows me to meditate as well because there’s this element that allows me to, yeah, just like turn my mind off and focus on being calm and relaxed. And yeah, that gives me a lot of confidence on the water to know that I’ve got that in my back pocket. I can hold my breath for a long time and, yeah, just control my heart rate and stuff like that. So that’s generally what I do. But through Graves’ disease, I also started doing this like heart math monitor type breathing. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that, but it’s, it’s a technique. It’s actually a device that you use to, monitor your, brain and heart connection which sounds kind of woo woo, but it’s pretty cool. And I would encourage people to look into it because for me it really helped me focus on like calming everything down. And yeah, it’s just a cool technique to, it’s mindful breath work and slow long breaths. So yeah, sorry, that’s a deep tangent, but obviously I’m really into it and it’s helped me a ton through everything, through discomfort.

Anna Levesque
No, it’s awesome.

Yeah. No, thank you. I love some woo woo, you know? And I’ve heard about heart math for a long, long time. And you know, I’ve always, you know, keep meaning to look into it more. So thanks for sharing that. It sounds really cool.

Isaac Levinson
Me too, I’m into it.

Yeah, it was helpful. And once you learn it, you don’t really need the monitor anymore. I’d use it all the time to wind down and kind of regulate. So, yeah.

Anna Levesque
Cool, right on. Okay, what’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Isaac Levinson
Staying active and moving, going for walks, that’s been a new one for me in the last year or so is walking.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Awesome. I thank you for sharing that because actually, you know, in terms of longevity, I think that is actually a big thing because both Andrew and I walk at least once a day because we have our dog and most days like twice a day in addition to like other activities. And I do think that in terms of just sustainability, walking is the most underrated exercise, form of exercise.

Isaac Levinson
I 100 % agree. I’ve like, yeah, it’s probably the best thing that I’ve done for myself in the last year is just to make sure I move for an hour, like just walk for an hour. And yeah, I do a lot of like hike and fly paragliding as well. It’s a little bit more intense walking, but really just going for like walk without a backpack on and yeah, it’s yeah, it’s epic what it does. It’s funny. So chill, but so good.

Anna Levesque
Right on.

Right? Yep. Okay. What’s a favorite inspirational or motivational book, talk or song?

Isaac Levinson
I really like this, Ted talk with, the skateboarder named Rodney Mullen. It’s about getting back up again. Yeah. To that. Yeah. I like this, book or this Ted talk with Rodney Mullen. That’s a, he’s a skateboarder and it’s about getting back up again. That one’s really good. And then also documentary, the Alpinist with, Mark Andre Leclerc is another really motivational story.

Anna Levesque
Cool. Thank you. I’ll to check those out.

All right, what do people get wrong about you?

Isaac Levinson
That I’m a risk taker.

Anna Levesque
Hmm, interesting. Over the course of your life, have you considered yourself the underdog or the favored to win?

Isaac Levinson
I wrote down underdog, but I would say both at different points in my life.

Anna Levesque
Sure. Yeah. Which one feels more motivating to you? Yeah. Totally.

Isaac Levinson
Underdog, yeah, I like that better.

Anna Levesque
Okay. Hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Isaac Levinson
Flooding.

Anna Levesque
What is one word that describes your comfort zone?

Isaac Levinson
Quiet.

Anna Levesque
Freedom through discipline or I do what I want.

Isaac Levinson
Freedom through discipline.

Anna Levesque
In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Isaac Levinson
Humility.

Anna Levesque
Nice. Did you have that written down? You prepped. It’s awesome. No, it’s good. You just had it right there, humility. Well, it goes with what, like the conversation we had, you know, and like talking about Andrew and yeah, humility is a great.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah. Yeah. Is that good or bad? Yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, he comes to mind. He’s like one of those people that comes to mind with that word for sure.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah. Is there anything else you want to say to our listeners?

Isaac Levinson
I wrote down a quote that I really like from The Alpinist, which is a documentary on this mountain climber named Marc-Andre Leclerc, but it goes, it says, one of the coolest experiences as a human is to feel so small in a world that’s so big. And to me, that’s typically when you feel like that, usually in an uncomfortable situation. Yeah, I just like love that feeling and would encourage people to find that. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Yeah. What about that is really inspiring to you? Like that feeling, if you think about not the quote, but that feeling for yourself of feeling small in like a really big world, like what does that do for you personally?

Isaac Levinson
It grounds me. Yeah, I love being remote and zooming out in my mind of like where I am on the Google Earth map. yeah, it just makes you feel like super insignificant, but also significant in a way. just like, yeah, I don’t know, it you in your place. It’s cool. And yeah, the deeper and more remote that I can get, the better that that feels.

Anna Levesque
Hmm. Yeah. And also what comes to mind listening to you too, or for me is a reminder to not take myself so seriously. And, you know, that, yeah.

Isaac Levinson
Totally.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s all I have to say about that. Isaac, thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you and I loved our conversation. So thank you for taking the time.

Isaac Levinson
Yeah, thank you so much. And yeah, really good to catch up. I hope to see you guys soon and connect personally. So be great.

Cheers, Anna.