Anna Levesque
My guest today, Heidi Walsh, is an ex-freestyle kayaker making the switch to whitewater kayaking. She was recently named paddler of the year by Kayak Session Magazine. And for the last few years, she’s been spending her summers paddling and teaching on the Ottawa River and across the rest of the world the rest of the year.

She loves big volume waterfalls and merging the disciplines together with downriver freestyle. And I’m really excited to have her on the show. So thanks for being here, Heidi. Appreciate you.

Heidi
Thanks for having me.

Anna Levesque
Yes, so when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you?

Heidi
I guess for me discomfort zone is like when I’m most nervous and when I’m most stressed and definitely going into waterfalls in class five I’m finding my discomfort zone more and more often on a regular basis but I also think that it’s in freestyle quite a lot especially in competition I think discomfort can be anytime that you’re nervous it doesn’t necessarily have to be like a big scary dangerous situation

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Well, and on the topic of pushing yourself in your discomfort zone and waterfalls, you’ve been doing that quite a bit recently. And not just running waterfalls, but like doing back freewheels over waterfalls, like into seams and all kinds of really cool cutting edge stuff that actually puts the rest of us watching also in a discomfort zone, but fun because we’re watching you doing these epic things. what, like, how do you, how did, most recently, you you did that back freewheel, I’ll call it. What is it? I don’t know. Sorry, I’m of the older generation. What’s the name of the trick? Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, switch freewheel over Spirit Falls on the little white, which is.

Heidi
switch freewheel. Close enough!

Anna Levesque
pretty big, beautiful waterfall, and it’s got a lot of consequence below it. And you did that, looked super cool, and you went deep in the seam and got shot out like a little watermelon seed. And yeah, it was just really cool. I was so excited when I saw it. I ran and showed my husband. was like, check this out. So there’s one thing of running waterfalls, which…

you know, for me, like already is a discomfort zone. And then there’s like doing like, I’m gonna throw myself, you know, off this waterfall backwards while doing a trick. So how do you prepare for that? Like, what was your strategy?

Heidi
I guess first you want to be comfortable on the waterfall. this is my second time in the gorge now, so, I’ve run spirit quite a lot and I was getting pretty comfortable with it and I understood the drop and, so I guess I stopped being uncomfortable running spirit. That’s a pretty good start. And then, freestyle background, I guess.

If you’re comfortable with the move as well and you know how to do that and you’ve practiced it on smaller drops like I’ve been doing a lot of freestyle out in Chile this winter. So I understood the move and I understood the drop and it was just combining the two which is scary because it’s spirit but I just thought to myself that I understood it and I was pretty sure I could do it and I was also pretty sure that I could handle whatever happened afterwards which I’d say I handled it pretty okay. We set really good safety so I wasn’t too stressed about that. I think if the safety is there and it’s ready to go then it minimizes a lot of risk as well.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. So what I hear you say and all that is you practiced essentially hard moves and easy water along the way. I not easy. I mean, for the freestyle moves, let’s call that hard moves and easy water, right? And you mentioned doing these, the move like off of smaller drops. I wouldn’t call running spirit hard moves and easy water, hard moves and hard water, right? But getting familiar with that, like that repetition letting your nervous system regulate to that and confident with that before you took on doing it, putting it all together.

Heidi
Yeah, totally. Easy moves in, wait, no, not easy moves in hard places. Hard moves in easy places. For sure, that’s freestyle down to a T. I think you can get so technically sharp in a playboat and not ever be scared or nervous or be in that discomfort zone. And that’s so useful because then suddenly when you do get in hard and scary places, you’ve done the moves a hundred times before. You’ve face planted a hundred times before, but it’s all been in like super chill spots so you don’t have to think about that which is really important.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, and what you’re bringing up is like the benefit of like training yourself in multiple disciplines in the sport of kayaking, know, like doing the freestyle, doing the river running. And yeah, like you said, even in your bio, being able to combine the two is super fun. Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. And then you mentioned,

Heidi
Yeah, it’s probably my favourite thing to do for sure.

Anna Levesque
like also setting up the safety so the support and community is huge. And I know on Instagram, think you released the reverse switch, wait, switch. my God. You released like the switch back. What is it? Switch, freewheel. Thank you. Switch freewheel.

Heidi
Switch freewheel.

Anna Levesque
So you release the reverse, the switch freewheel and then like a little bit later, because a lot of people are, because you ended up hand rolling, which is also amazing there. And it looked like you were going into the next rapid chaos, which is a huge hole essentially hand paddling. So everyone was like, what happened? And then you released that video and you could see from that video, like all the, you know, safety jumping into action. You look like you went for it, which is great. That’s what you have to do if you’re in that situation. And so, and did that like, so I’m gonna, I think it’s all awesome.

How did it feel for you to do like an awesome move and then go in and kind of get a beat down and take a swim? so how, yeah, what was that like for you?

Heidi
So I’ll start at the very top. I didn’t expect to have my paddles ripped away from me, that’s for sure. I thought something happening in the pool could be a possibility, so I had two people on the eddy on the right and then I tried to have somebody else a little bit further downstream, but that was actually my second lap, so the person further downstream left, which is fine. I still had plenty of safety, but anyway.

My paddles got ripped away from me and then in that moment I was a bit like, God, because that was probably in my mind the worst case scenario. And then I flew out like a salmon, which was also wildly unexpected. And then I was right in the middle of the pool. So I couldn’t get to the Eddy on the other side. I potentially could have got to the Eddy on River left, but I was stressed. I was mainly stressed about chaos, but more stressed about going through it upside down than actually going through it. So the main thing going through my mind in that situation was just get to chaos upright. That was all I could think of. So I just tried to build up as much speed as I could. I tried to point as straight as I could because you’ve got those boils and waves above chaos that could mess you up. And they did, but not too badly.

So once I’d got through chaos upright, honestly, I really wasn’t very stressed. I knew I had safety down there and the swim sucked. Like for sure. I think I did three cycles in chaos. Then I was down for quite a while, but, at no point did I think I was in like danger because I knew my friends were there. and they were going to get me a bag. I didn’t want to stay in there any longer. Of course.

But I knew that I had safety set up and they were there to come help. So I just had to hold on and do the best of what I could. I, yeah, I wasn’t too stressed coming out. The boys were great. I was out in maybe 30 seconds, 40 seconds. And then my paddle popped up and then just paddled out and continued to have a great time. So yeah, I guess taking the beat down is scary, but if you can minimize that risk.

Beatdowns often aren’t that bad. I’ve taken many, many beatdowns in the last few years and I’ve got pretty comfortable with them. So understanding if it’s a super sketchy beatdown versus a not so sketchy beatdown, I think is pretty important.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reason I asked that is because it can be really, I think what I hear you say is that you didn’t let it bother you. you were, you’re like, okay, that happened. I prepped for this. There’s safety. Great. It worked. I’m on the river with amazing people. I just did this super cool thing. I’m not going to let this one portion of that like ruin my day. I’m going to get back in my boat and go. And I think that’s so important is because I work with a lot and you work with a lot of students as well teaching kayaking and I’m sure you’ve experienced where someone will take a swim and it will, they will literally let it ruin the rest of their day, even though they’re on like an amazing river with amazing people and we’re all in between swims and you when you try new stuff, it’s going to happen. So I think it’s really important really cool that you modeled that on like at the top, top of the sport, you know, like that you, and I’m gonna venture to say that that is why you are at the top of the sport is because, and doing these things is because you don’t let, you know, whatever the swims, the misses, whatever gets you down.

Heidi
For sure, yeah, I think when you’re trying your best and you’re pushing your limits, you are going to fail and that’s okay. You just have to fail in a safe way and often learning from your mistakes is the best way to learn or sometimes the only way to learn and the only way to really push yourself is to get past that. If you let it get to you all the time, you’re just going to stunt your progression and it is hard and it’s scary but I don’t know, I guess I just, I’m not too fazed by a beatdown.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s good. Have you always been that way or is it something that you have had to develop as a skill?

Heidi
I’ve definitely always been this way. When I was not very good at kayaking, I was getting beat down quite a lot and I was never too stressed about it. I rarely swam when I was younger, just because of my ability to hold on. I’m like ridiculously stubborn. I take some impressive beat downs over the years, but I also, come from a swimming background. When I was a kid, I was a swimmer, so I can hold my breath for a really long time and I’m not too freaked out in water and often if I did swim, I would just swim to the side. I’d never really had a super gnarly swim because I’m pretty strong in the water. So I guess that helps as well with the beatdowns.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Well, and it’s something too, I encourage my clients to actually practice if they don’t have a lot of confidence, honestly, and holding their breath is to like practice holding their breath, you know, at pool sessions or whatever. It seems like a simple thing, not kayaking related, but it actually is. And it can be, it can boost your confidence because like a roll takes four seconds. And so if you can hold your breath more than four seconds, which almost I’m sure like I,everyone I’ve met so far can definitely do that, then like at least then in your brain you can be a bit more logical about it. Like, okay, I have, I can hold my breath for 30 seconds and a roll takes four seconds. I can do this kind of thing.

Heidi
Yeah, 100%.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. So what puts you more in discomfort zone, competing in a freestyle competition or like going off waterfalls and running hard white water?

Heidi
I think competition and creaking are two very different types of discomfort. One of them, the danger is very real. And if you mess it up, the consequences are really high. And the other one is scary psychologically, but as soon as it’s over, you can go straight back to your sofa or your house or whatever, and you’re fine. Like it doesn’t matter if it goes well or if it goes terribly.

So I think they’re two very different kinds of discomfort, but I don’t think that means that one is easier than the other. think competition, especially if you’ve given it your all and you’ve trained really hard and you’re super committed to a certain event, the pressure is real and it can be internal pressure, it can be external pressure, but it’s something you have to deal with and some people thrive in it and some people don’t I think both of them help each other. think competing is a really good way to kind of train your mind to get in a good spot and get in a good zone and focus, but in a low consequence environment. And then you can take that to creaking where you really do have to be on it and you don’t have another choice. And you’ve already practiced that, that mindset and you know how to kind of flip your switch and get into action. and then it’s the same with creaking. found that the more class five I did, the better at competitions I got because I could sit in the Eddie and then ignore all of my distractions and go, okay, it’s time to compete now. Like this is it. So I think they go hand in hand. I will say that the, the class five, the waterfall discomfort zone is significantly harder than freestyle.

But I also think I’ve rarely not been able to get into a good mindset with Class 5 because it is so stout and you have to be there and you have to be sharp. Whereas freestyle or other competitions, sometimes you don’t get in the mindset because you’re just like, eh, you know? So I think, yeah, two very different things, but they’re both similar.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned distractions and there are at least in my mind, there are a lot more distractions at a freestyle competition than there are when you’re paddling a hard river. Because when you’re paddling class five, it’s you and your crew in the river and you’re moving at your pace at a freestyle competition, there’s spectators and judges and announcers and your fellow competitors and the wave or the hole.

You know, so it does, it is a good practice area for like having a lot of distractions and having to focus your mind on your performance rather than everything else around.

Heidi
Yeah, definitely. When I was younger, I was actually, I would say not very good at competing at all. I was so good at getting distracted and having too much fun in the competition and then not quite getting my head in the game when I needed to or spiralling. If something went badly, then I couldn’t get back in a good spot. And I found that since I started creaking, I actually now compete really well, which is really cool.

Anna Levesque
That’s cool. Yeah, that is really cool. So when you say you’re an ex-freestyle boater, does that mean you’re not going to compete anymore? Are you going to still compete?

Heidi
That’s a very good question. I think I might be done. I don’t know. We’ll see. I’m such an all or nothing person that I think I would really struggle to compete in freestyle but not train religiously for our whole season or two seasons. I would be really sad to go to a competition and then not do as well as I could because I didn’t train that hard.

Realistically, do I want to give up creaking and waterfalls and everything else for a whole season to train? I don’t know. Can I learn to enjoy competition without giving it my all beforehand? Maybe, and then it will be really fun. I found that actually I’ve still got better at freestyle like my last. I went to GoPro games last June and I competed the best I’ve ever done without training. So I think the boat control and the skills are still there. So maybe I could keep going.

But right now it feels like I’m going in a different direction and I’m kind of okay with it for now.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, think prioritizing and doing what you enjoy is so important.

I agree. Like I, after I stopped competing, I like several years later, I went back and I was like, I’ll just compete. And I did not have fun at all because I hadn’t been training and I wasn’t like in the groove and I didn’t like compete for myself. Competing was never my favorite thing. I love freestyle. I loved everything around the competition. I just always struggled with like competition mindset.

And so, yeah, I can relate to that. then because if you are a high performing person, it’s hard to not put pressure on yourself or I’ll speak for myself. It’s hard for me to not put pressure on myself to do well, even though it’s unrealistic if I haven’t been training, right? But then if I do it and I’m like, I wish I’d done better. It’s like, well, but you didn’t train. it’s just, yeah, better to focus on other stuff. For me, it was like, going into teaching, which I really love and working with people and yeah, I appreciate River running, but I also love freestyle playboating like for the fun of it, like just to go surf garb or on the Ottawa with myself, my friends, so fun, like still love it so much. So grateful for all those skills actually that you learn when you’re competing because you do hone your skills and even for myself like 20 years later, I can still do stuff out there, which is so fun, right? So it’s like you never lose that. Yeah.

Heidi
Yeah, 100%. One of my favourite things about competing is like the emotional turmoil that comes with it. When you’re sat in the eddy and you’re like, I’ve given my absolute everything and it’s this moment that counts, nothing more, nothing less. And it’s scary and often there are tears if it’s happy or if it’s sad. And it’s just like that whole commitment going into the one moment.

I think if I didn’t have all of that commitment and all of those emotions, then I wouldn’t quite enjoy it nearly as much. but I’ll always love freestyle. And it’s like you said, I love going to the Ottawa. I love joy laps. I love surfing. I love doing tricks with my friends. And I think it keeps you really sharp for everything else. And also I love the, the stress break. Like sometimes creaking can be really scary. And sometimes when you do it for a really long time, then you just get really mentally tired to go kayaking and to build yourself up for a really big day on the river. And freestyle is like the best way to still go kayaking every day and not be stressed. And it’s a really great break. And then it fires you up again for white water after that. It’s just like, it keeps that balance like perfect for me.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. Yeah. I what you’re saying is, you know, that you’re not maxed out all the time. You go through cycles of like maxing out on the hard stuff and then taking a break, doing something else and then getting fired up again. And I think that that’s also important because, you know, yeah, that ebb and flow is, important. No one can be maxed out all the, well, I don’t know. Maybe someone can, but it seems like

Heidi
Maybe someone can, but I can’t.

Anna Levesque
As a whole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a good thing to do. Take some breaks. Yeah. So what have you learned about yourself through all of this discomfort, whether it’s been creaking or competing?

Heidi
I’ve learnt that I really like kayaking. It’s pretty fun. I think I’ve learnt a lot about myself. I’ve learnt to back myself. I’ve learnt to trust my abilities. I’ve put myself in a lot of really, really hard and scary situations now and so far, touch wood, it hasn’t gone too badly.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s good.

Heidi
Clearly the decision making process I’m doing is pretty good. I’ve learnt that I do very well under pressure. I’m a very calm head and I’m good at taking things seriously when they need to be taken seriously. And I’ve learnt that I really enjoy the discomfort. I always have. It’s a place that I like to be in. Not at the time, obviously. I don’t think anyone likes being in discomfort at the time, but…

I do enjoy the process of getting in that place and then the feelings that come afterwards as well. You can’t really get it anywhere else.

Anna Levesque
Hmm. Yeah, that’s cool. There’s something you said also that I wanted to ask about…

I guess you answered it because you said you really like being in that spot of discomfort for not in the moment, but so is it like pride that you feel afterwards? Excitement? Like what is the emotion that that like draws you, that keeps pulling you forward back into it?

Heidi
I guess it’s a lot of different emotions. I really like the feeling of nailing something. I think I’ve been in a lot of situations where I’ve been in that discomfort zone and it’s been big and stout and scary, or it’s been a competition and it hasn’t gone as well as I’ve wanted, or I haven’t nailed the line and it hasn’t been that satisfying and I haven’t enjoyed it. So I know it’s not just like the feeling of coming out the other side.

I think it’s still got to be done well. think it’s, I really enjoy knowing that I’ve nailed something and I’ve had a really good line and all of my hard work has paid off. I think that’s a really nice feeling. And then obviously the feeling of adrenaline and relief and all of that stuff, but only if it’s done well. I don’t, I don’t really feel that. I don’t, yeah, I don’t think it’s fun when I’m like, yeah, I’ve survived.

Like that’s not really what I’m going for here.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, I think, yeah, I can relate with that. I think a lot of people can relate with that. And there’s something of kind of, I also want to mention like, cause a lot of my clients tend to be like perfectionists and high performers. And so sometimes we can cling too much to like, it has to be done well. But then again, like the example you used at the beginning of our conversation showed that you’re like with, spirit and your experience there is that you embraced everything. It was still done well. And actually it was still done well because not only was the run done well, but then the safety was done well and hand rolling there. So I would venture to say what you’re saying is not like it has to go perfect, but you wanted to feel like you were prepared and you did well.

Heidi
Exactly. Done well versus done perfect are two very different things. I think every single video I’ve watched back of myself, every single waterfall, like even Abiqua was like, it was unreal and the line was good, but it wasn’t perfect. I’ve never watched anything back and I thought, yeah, that was really perfect. There’s nothing more I could have done better. Like there’s always things you can do better for sure. And then if you’re a perfectionist or

Probably everyone who is near the top of the game in the sport, everyone will nitpick because that’s kind of the personality that you have to be to get there. But that doesn’t mean that you’ve done a bad job. And I think that’s really important to distinguish as well. You can do something really well and you can always still do better, but it’s important to recognize the successes, even if it’s not perfect.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, and what I hear you saying too is be open to feedback while also celebrating your win. Be open to feedback without the feed. There’s a difference between like, I could have done that better. Okay, I see here where I could like next time try this or do this better. Or obsessing about like, it wasn’t perfect or why did I do that? You know what I mean? There’s a difference there. There’s like an energetic difference of one is gonna like, pump you up to like go again and do better next time. And the other, just like you said earlier, kind of like holds you back, keeps you in a rut because you’re just focusing on what you didn’t do well versus like what you could do better next time.

Yeah. How tall is Abiqua? Tell us about that.

Heidi
It’s 92 feet.

It’s quite, yeah, it’s quite big.

That was mad. It was surreal. Avocado has been on my list for a long time, but it’s always been a long-term goal because you’ve got to build up to that kind of thing. You can’t just fire off a 92 footer and think life’s going to be great. But I had a big season in Chile and I did a lot of falling up to about 75 feet at Nguyen.

I hadn’t done any waterfalls since let’s say November time. So I was really hoping to get off the couch with a money drop or an outlet or something like that, something a little bit smaller. But Abiqua came in and we went to go scout it and we decided on the first day that it wasn’t quite good to go. I was super keen, but I wanted like the whole team to be in the same spot. So.

We left and then the next morning it came up even higher. So we rallied back to Abiqua and it looked perfect. It was just like the perfect flow, the perfect waterfall for me. thought I could do it. I knew how to set my angle. It had been a couple months now, but I don’t think the skills leave you. You just have to have faith in your abilities. And I didn’t think it was out of my reach. It was really scary. Definitely.

But being in the eddy and then floating down, you just, you have to have full faith in your abilities at that point, otherwise you just shouldn’t be there. And as scary as that is, it’s super rewarding when you get to the bottom with a good line.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, it’s impressive. What is your technical strategy for running a 92-footer? Like from the technical side, like what were you thinking about in terms of your launch, your fall, your landing?

Heidi
Yeah, I had a lot of help from Dane this winter, which was unreal. He has some real words of wisdom. I’ll just, I guess, repeat what he said to me. So he basically told me that staring it down for as long as possible is the best thing that you can do. You have essentially one, only one way to control your angle on the way down, and that’s your paddle blade. So if you’re throwing or if you’re tucking,

The moment that you tuck or let go of your paddle, that’s when you lose control. So you want to do that as low down as possible. Staring it down is one of the scariest things you can do. It’s super intimidating. Everything in your mind wants you to just tuck into a little ball and just wait until the bottom. But if you can stare it down, I find as well, the longer I stare it down, the more life slows down and you can really go into that flow state. So.

Just having that blade in the water but not necessarily doing anything with it, just having it there, having some pressure on it, feeling the water. Less is more. And on Abiquar especially, the lip rolls quite nicely. So you just put yourself in a good spot. You let it roll you. Don’t do too much, just have that paddle blade there. Do some correction strokes if you need to, depending on how much your bow is going up or down. And then when you feel ready in my instance throw instead of tuck. So when I was floating down the things in my mind were just less is more stare it down. They were like the two takeaways for sure.

Anna Levesque
Thanks for sharing. And for those who might not know, like stare it down. Do you want to just say what that means? Like exactly.

Heidi
Yep.

Yeah, so essentially just spotting your landing in simplest forms. Like if you were jumping on a trampoline or you were like jumping off a tree or something, spotting your landing, just keeping your eyes down and seeing everything coming at you. And then you can understand when the hit’s going to happen, what’s going on with your kayak, what’s going on with your body. And just kind of then you have the most control if you’re looking at the pool below and you’re seeing what’s going on around you.

Anna Levesque
Mm-hmm. Thanks for that. When you landed, was there a lot of force, like pushing your upper body back? Or what did that feel like when you actually landed?

Heidi
I had a relatively soft hit. I went behind, which is kind of crazy because my bowel, I wasn’t over the bars. So that was wild. All of the air had come out of my kayak and my dry suit. was like completely vacuumed in. I was really impressed that my skirt stayed on. Yeah, it was kind of wild. And then I hadn’t rolled up, but

Anna Levesque
Whoa, that’s crazy. Yeah, that’s, yeah.

Heidi
I didn’t feel like I took a hit, which was really nice. I just had like a little slap in the face. I had like a little chubby cheek afterwards. I think the water had slapped me. But that was it. Like a slightly chubby cheek. I’ll take that. That was totally fine. But yeah, we had a 50-50 swim ratio that day. So there were four of us who ran it and myself and Alex stayed in our boats. And then the other two boys, one of them got ripped out and then the other one swam.

Anna Levesque
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

A little love tap from the water.

Heidi
and they all said that they took some pretty big hits. So I think I got away lightly.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s great. That’s awesome. I mean, I’ve run, I can remember running a 30 foot waterfall, I can’t remember, in the Pacific Northwest somewhere and I landed upside down and I’ve got ejected out of my boat so fast. Like, it’s crazy how fast because you think, I’m so connect, everyone who paddled, like you’re connected. And then it was like, I went over the lip and I was like, I’m going too far. And then like,

Heidi
Next thing I know, I’m out of my boat. So it can really, instantly. It was, the boys were crazy. They said that it felt like they ran a marathon. They were here at the house that evening and the next day and they all said that their quads hurt so much and it was probably just like the impact against the thigh braces and then just like boom straight out of the boat that all of their legs were hurting quite a lot.

Anna Levesque
Mm.

Wow, yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s amazing. Why do you want to run big waterfalls? What drives you to do that?

Heidi
I it’s a good question. I really like them. I like the challenge. I like that they’re scary. I love the feeling, obviously. I do get like flow state where life slows down and there’s a little picture in my brain that’s gonna stay there forever. I like the free fall. I only like the free fall if I do it well. There are definitely some times where it’s just like…

of it but that’s the game that we play. Yeah I just I like the challenge I really I love progression that’s just my personality type I love to just push and push and push and see how far it can take me so I guess with waterfalls that’s kind of the epitome of that.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, cool. Thanks for sharing, Heidi. Do you have any questions for me?

Heidi
Hmm, are you coming to the Ottawa this summer? Are we going kayaking? Nice.

Anna Levesque
Yes, yes. Yes, I’m excited. August. Again, so that’ll be super fun. It’s my favorite.

Heidi
Yeah, hopefully it garbs in. That’ll be sweet.

Anna Levesque
I know, hopefully Garb is in. That’s why I go in August. It’s just to hopefully that it comes in. So yeah, it’ll be good. Really good. Are you ready for rapid fire?

Heidi
Sure.

Anna Levesque
Okay. What’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Heidi
Doing something active. If I can get my heart rate up in the morning, then I can feel like I can use my brain so much more for the rest of the day.

Anna Levesque
Right on. What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Heidi
I’m really bad at looking after myself. I don’t know. Sleep.

Anna Levesque
Hahaha!

That’s a good one, especially if you’re running big waterfalls. What’s a favorite motivational book, talk or song?

Heidi
AWOL Nation has some really good quotes in their songs. Never let fear decide your fate. I like that one.

Anna Levesque
I’m gonna look that up. That sounds good. Okay, what do people get wrong about you?

Heidi
some people think that I’m pretty reckless because I do loose things and I push my limits, but, I actually get scared quite a lot and I’m kind of sensible and boring. Sorry. Sorry to crush everyone’s hopes and dreams.

Anna Levesque
I love that. Okay. Throughout the course of your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favorite to win?

Heidi
I think I’ve always been the underdog and I think only very recently is that switching but I’ve always been the underdog,

Anna Levesque
Okay. Hard moves in easy water or flooding?

Heidi
flooding. I know. I know.

Anna Levesque
But you talked a lot about hard moves and easy water. think you’re like the combo. think you love, well, who am I to say? But from this conversation, it sounds like you really love the flooding. That’s what you love. And you’ve prepared for that with the hard moves and easy water.

Heidi
Yeah, I think I do a lot of hard moves in Easy Water, but my god, when things go off, it’s game on.

Anna Levesque
Right on. Okay, what’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Heidi
playful.

Anna Levesque
Nice. Yeah, you are very playful. Actually, I just want to say that’s something I really appreciate about you and like having paddled with you a little bit on the Ottawa is I’ve always loved being around really high performing paddlers who are also like fun and silly and like, you know, just goof around. And I just really paddling with you is a joy. So I agree. Yeah.

Heidi
Thanks. Aww.

Anna Levesque
Freedom through discipline or I do what I want.

Heidi
I think you can do both in there. I think me doing exactly what I want is quite disciplined. And I think through discipline you find freedom. You’ve got to work hard to get where you want to be. And without that hard work, you can’t do what you want.

Anna Levesque
Well said. Okay, in one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Heidi
Joy.

Anna Levesque
Mm, that’s a good one. Yeah. That’s awesome. Is there anything else you want to say to our listeners about the discomfort zone, about kayaking?

Heidi
I don’t know, I guess don’t be afraid of your discomfort zone but listen to when it’s telling you it’s too much or not. think distinguishing between rational and irrational fear is super important. Push yourself in a smart way.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, that’s great. That brings up one more question I have for you since you brought up the irrational versus rational fear. How do you discern like what’s your strategy for discerning between the two?

Heidi
I definitely, I have a thought process whenever I scout anything or run anything and I’ll look at the rapid and I’ll break down all of the moves. Can I make each move? Yes or no. Why am I nervous? Is it because it looks really big or is it because actually the moves are out of my league? And just understanding if it’s within my skillset or not. And sometimes the nerves are too much and that’s okay too.

But understanding why they’re there is really important. And then just being able to ignore them and be like, Hey, I know I can do every single move in this rapid. And I’m nervous because it’s big and scary and that’s fine. And I’m allowed to be nervous, but I’ve got it versus I’m really nervous because I actually don’t think I can do this. And I think the moves at the bottom, I can’t do. So therefore the moves at the top, also shouldn’t be doing, you know, it’s just, just understanding if it’s within your skillset or not and then you can go from there.

Anna Levesque
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Thank you. Okay, I actually have one more that just popped up as you were talking. When you said you were looking at Abiqua, is that how you say it? I feel like Abiqua, is that how you say it? Yeah. So when you were looking at Abiqua and you said something like, like I knew I could do it. Where in your body, do you feel that? Or do you feel that in your body? I’m just curious, because I have a very distinct, it’s distinctly in my body when I have that experience. So I just want to hear from you if it’s in your body that you feel that.

Heidi
Yeah, I definitely feel fear in my body. I feel it in my stomach quite a lot. And I feel a little bit sick and I definitely struggle to eat before big stouts or when I’m really nervous, I’ll struggle to get food in me, but I know it’s important. And then my breathing as well. I’ll like make a strong effort to control my breathing and put myself slow and steady in a good spot because I think it’s easy to kind of just like get a little bit anxious and a little bit amongst it and let the breathing go. So in the stomach and in the breathing. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Yeah. So that’s where you feel fear. What about when you feel that like, I’ve got this, like, this is big, but I want to do this.

Heidi
Also in the stomach, yeah. I think they go hand in hand. feel, I definitely, feel sick regardless. If I’ve got it or if I haven’t got it, it’s just, it’s scary. Yeah.

Anna Levesque
Also in the stomach. Okay. Got it.

Okay, okay, got it. interesting. Yeah, okay, cool. Well, thanks so much for sharing today, Heidi. Thanks for taking the time. I know you’re about to head across the pond soon, so safe travels and yeah, thanks again. Really appreciate and I’m really excited for who you are in the paddling world and what you’re doing. I just have a lot of admiration and respect. So thanks for following your passion and you know, letting us get to share in that. Yeah.

Heidi
Yeah, it’s been fun. Thanks for having me.