Anna Levesque: Hahaha! All right, my guest today, Deborah Kane, is the founder of Rally Crew, a new online gathering place for Whitewater paddlers. Her professional career has spanned policy, television production, magazine publishing, commercial property development, government service, nonprofit advocacy, and entrepreneurship. While the subject areas have varied, the through line has always been creating community and building connections.

Deborah took up whitewater kayaking in her late 40s, and more than a decade later, it remains her favorite thing to do. Rally Crew is her latest project, designed to make it easier for paddlers to connect with one another, plan trips, discover events, and build skills. She lives in Portland, Oregon, where she gardens in her downtime and regularly drops hints to her two grown kids that it’s time they joined her. Sorry. She lives in Portland, Oregon, where she gardens in her downtime.

and regularly drops hints to her two grown kids that it’s time they joined her on the river. Welcome, Deborah. Thanks for being here.

Deborah Kane: Thank you, Anna. Good to be here.

Anna Levesque: I’m excited for our chat. So when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you? What does that mean to you? What’s there for you?

Deborah Kane: Okay, well, I want to say, Anna, I think the first time I even heard the word discomfort zone was when you shared it with me on the Ottawa almost a year ago now. And at the time I thought, what in the world does Anna even mean by that? And then a few months later you reached out and you said, you will you join me on the podcast? And I still was like, I still wonder what she means by discomfort zone, but I was game, right? So here I am.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: And I want to tell you that I am deeply in my discomfort zone right now, in my personal life, in my kayaking life, and in my work life. So first, I just want to say thank you for introducing. Thank you.

Anna Levesque: Well, maybe thank you. The discomfort zone is not always like the most fun place to be.

Deborah Kane: Well, it’s for me, honestly, just preparing to talk to you today. I’ve been thinking about it for the last few months, honestly. And I have found it to be a really helpful framework for the things that are happening for me in my life right now. So my answer to your question, what does the discomfort zone mean to me? To me, if I’m in my discomfort zone, it means that I don’t know the answer to the question, is this going to work?

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: Will this work? I don’t know. And largely it’s because I find myself in a situation, most likely where I haven’t done the thing before. And so I don’t actually know what comes next. Maybe I’m in it and I don’t know what comes next, or maybe I’m thinking about doing it and I’m not sure if it’s a good idea. So it’s sort of like,

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: It’s the moment in time where, yeah, I’m not guaranteed any particular outcome, and that makes me very uncomfortable. And there’s discomfort for me in not knowing whether the thing, whatever it is, is going to work. But what I’ve been reflecting on is it’s equally interesting to me that there’s discomfort in thinking about not doing it as well.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: Right? Like, I’d rather fail trying than not try at all. So I almost like when I find myself on the precipice, right, of this question, like, will it work?

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: I like, there’s something in me that’s just like, here we go. Like I am much more likely to walk forward than I am to stop or step back. And I, as you know, you know, I’m in the middle of launching a new company called Rally Crew. And I don’t know if it’s going to work. I literally have no idea. I’m super in my discomfort zone as it relates to Rally Crew. And by kayaking.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: life. a little bit in my discomfort zone right now in about two weeks. I’m going to head to the Grand Canyon for a 21 day right trip on the Grand Canyon. And I’ve got some unfinished business some of those rapids. Just thinking about lava, you know, really in my discomfort zone. And then in my personal life, I’m in the midst of a divorce. And, you know, I think

Anna Levesque: Nice. nice.

Anna Levesque: Hahaha

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: All my friends tell me, Deborah, you’re going to be great. You’re going to be fine on the other side of this. And I generally believe them, but I am I’m in my discomfort zone in my personal life too. And, you know, if you’ll let me, I am preparing for the talk today. I started to think about my discomfort zone specifically as it relates to rally crew. And a lot of, you know, when I’m in that place where I have no idea. where I’m hopeful, know, we’re optimistic, but don’t know.

I did realize that I’ve developed some strategies, if you will, to, I don’t know, minimize the risk that it won’t work. So I could share those or we could go in a different direction. What do you wanna do?

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, no, think that’s typically my next question. I just want to acknowledge that thank you for sharing that you are in the discomfort zone everywhere. And yes, I think we can all relate at certain different points in time. And I appreciate you sharing that. And I love how you framed it very clearly of when you

Deborah Kane: Everywhere.

Deborah Kane: Totally.

Anna Levesque: you’re not guaranteed an outcome. And really, I think when we look at life, I mean, sometimes I think we think we’re guaranteed an outcome, but we’re really not. But we don’t, like there’s maybe because we have more confidence or experience or not, but I really appreciate you framing it that way. So yes, I would love to hear your strategies.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, all right, well, so the strategies, have eight, turns out. And maybe I’ll just, walk the listeners through how these strategies have been applied in the context of Rally Crew, which is the new business I’m creating. And then I know a lot of your listeners. Aw, thank you. And then I know a lot of your listeners are paddle sport enthusiasts. So we can, I think, let’s see if it works. You and I can try to.

Anna Levesque: wow.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, which I’m very excited about by the way. Just throw that out there. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: Try to relate the eight strategies to paddling. I think it’ll work. So maybe I’ll just run through them, then I’ll give you examples. So strategy number one is research. Do your research. Strategy number two, surround yourself with a trusted crew. Strategy number three, remind yourself that you don’t have to go it alone. Number four, have faith in yourself. Number five, mistakes are part of the process. Number six.

Anna Levesque: Sure.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: It helps if other people believe in you. Number seven, you do want to have a moderate amount of control over the outcome. And then number eight, when you decide to leap, you best be all in. So those are my eight strategies that I thought of in the context of this discomfort zone. And you mentioned it in the introduction a little bit about what Rally Crew is.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: You

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: It’s a brand new platform. It doesn’t exist. I have no idea if it will work. And I describe it as a giant online eddy where the whitewater boating community can hang out. your listeners who are boaters will understand what an eddy is, right? But perhaps for others, on a river, there’s current and the water’s moving downstream, but eddies are places that are calm and where the water’s not moving downstream. And boaters…

tend to hang out in Eddie’s and we talk in them and we take deep breaths in them because we’re scared perhaps of the rapid down river. But it’s a gathering place and Eddie is a gathering place and that’s exactly what Rally Crew is. It’s an online gathering place for the Whitewater Boating Community. And I’m really excited about it. I wanna gather with my Whitewater Boating buddies online but I don’t know if anybody else wants to.

So when I started thinking about Rally Crew almost a year and a half ago now,

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: to go back to my list, number one, research. One of the first things I did was research to see, am I the only one who thinks this? And that it’d be cool to hang out with, to create a dedicated space for Whitewater voters online. And we released a survey probably, yeah, about a year and a half ago now. And at the end of the day, 1,500 voters took the survey and the survey asked questions like, do you think it’d be a good idea to get off Facebook?

Anna Levesque: Mm.

Deborah Kane: Do you want to be able to search for courses in one place? Do you want to be able to record your river trips? know, basically put in front of the boating community the various features that we were building and ask for feedback. You know, I did my research. And overwhelmingly, the boating community was like, yeah, that sounds really cool. You should keep going. research is one of the things that I’m always thinking about.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, and how that relates to kayaking too is, mean, I love that, is, you know, to your research scout. That’s right. Well, yes. Right. Yeah, totally.

Deborah Kane: watch YouTube videos, read river guides, check water levels. Yeah, right? Yeah, okay, this is perfect. So I’ll do the rally crew ones and then you apply it to, like, no, no, perfect. I love this, this works. So then also with regard to rally crew, strategy number two, find a trusted crew, right? Like surround yourself with people that you know and that you trust.

Anna Levesque: haha

Anna Levesque: Mm, yeah.

Deborah Kane: RallyCrew is an online platform. It’s an app basically. It’s a web application. I’m not a programmer or a coder. can’t, I can’t technically, you know, create RallyCrew. So I had to find a team that could. And a lot of people, I think when they hear about RallyCrew, they assume at some level, just, you know, to minimize, to reduce costs.

I think a lot of people assume that I worked with an, you know, an offshore development team, you know, in some foreign land where I paid minimal wages.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: And the truth is, the Rally Crew developers are like two miles down the road from me in Portland, Oregon. And they know me and I know them and we trust each other. And they can complete my sentences and I can complete theirs. We’re in a relationship. Like they’re invested in Rally Crew. And do you have a trusted crew? Do you have a crew that believes in you and that you believe in? And we can apply that to the river, right? Like you don’t want to run.

Anna Levesque: That’s cool.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: yeah.

Deborah Kane: the biggest rabbit of your life with people you’ve never voted with before.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, I mean, I don’t. I think some people might, but that’s because I’ve been at put ins to like class four and five rivers in the past and just have people show up, be like, hey, can I join your crew? And I’ve never been a big fan of that on either end, actually. But coming back to what you were saying, what I loved is you said that they are invested in you.

Deborah Kane: I don’t either.

Anna Levesque: And I think that sometimes like that word invested, like it’s, I think that’s an important, I know if it’s a distinction that you just did, you just made with that because there are also, like if you’re going out with a crew and they’re always like, oh, just follow me, you’re fine. You know, and it’s really because they, so I guess this necessarily wouldn’t necessarily be a supportive crew, but I feel like

Deborah Kane: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: in the industry or in the community, I feel like that’s an accepted form of being, way of being. And maybe that folks don’t know that, you know, like when someone’s invested in you, they’re not just saying, follow me, do what I do, check me out, you’ll be fine. They’re actually checking in with you. How are you doing? Yeah. What’s your goal today? Yeah.

Deborah Kane: How are you doing? How do you feel? You’re looking good. Yep. Yep.

Anna Levesque: you know, maybe you don’t want to run this line. So you’re not going to follow me. I’m willing to take this other line because I’m here invested in you and our relationship. And this is this is going to make a successful day for you. So I just think that that yes, that one word in that or that sentence invested in you, that concept is really important and that we all deserve to have people who are invested in us.

Deborah Kane: I agree. you picked up on the investment word and the word that I always think about when I think about my team at WLCR, I should mention them by name, is we’re in relationship with one another. It’s not a working relationship. Sure, yes, it’s a working relationship, but they matter to me and I matter to them. It’s priceless. Yeah, of course.

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Yeah. And one more thing, if I can say that with the, in relationship, I also think it’s important. Okay. I haven’t really thought of this before, but it’s just coming to me. You’re also like the river is part of your crew, the river itself. And being in relationship with the river is also super important and actually investing in the river. So if you think about stewardship and all.

Deborah Kane: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: conservation.

Anna Levesque: all that good stuff. But being when instead of viewing the current or the rapid as something that’s out to get you and scary, cultivating a relationship with the river is what I coach my clients on all the time. That means getting like you’re saying in relationships, you get to know them, you get to know the river, you’re reading the river, your understanding deepens the longer that you are in relationship.

Deborah Kane: are in relationship. I love that. When I go out next time, I’m going to be like, hey, River, how you been? You and I are in a relationship today. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, me too.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, actually I have a Venn diagram. Yes, I love that. I have a Venn diagram of like my approach to whitewater kayaking and being in the paddle piece, being in relationship with the rivers is on there. So anyway, love that.

Deborah Kane: That’s beautiful. All right, strategy number three, to maximize your chances of succeeding when you are in your discomfort zone. Remind yourself that you don’t have to do it alone. And we touched on that a lot with strategy number two, but I just, I asked for help when I need it. I, and actually you’re a perfect example of this. mean, we know each other because I was a student of yours.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: In the past we also know each other because you are on the rally crew advisory team right when I was building rally crew I’m a boater. I’m a recreational paddler. I’m not in the whitewater world as you know as a professional Not an instructor. I don’t own a paddle sports school and yet I knew that folks that did would be really instrumental in helping rally crew succeed right so I put together an advisory team and

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: You know, on one hand, so the takeaway is like, share your goals with other people, share your goal with someone else. You know, if, if your goal, my goal is to get back on Canyon Creek, because I had a terrible time on it five years ago, then I started talking about it to other people. I’ve started saying, Hey, I think it might be time for me to get back on Canyon Creek. And just saying it out loud. one hand, it’s like,

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: Ha ha ha ha ha.

Deborah Kane: you’re kind of further toward doing it because you voiced it, right? And then you other people about it and people love to help. It’s a gift. You when you give someone the opportunity to help you accomplish a goal, that’s awesome for everybody involved. I, know, strategy number three is remind yourself that you don’t have to go it alone.

Anna Levesque: Great.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, and that’s a good one. Honestly, it’s something that I struggle with. You’re so good at asking for help. And I feel like I am terrible at it. What’s that? No, I am terrible at it. am more of a, you know, it’s something that I have to look at in my life or I want to look at in my life of, well, no one’s going to want to help me. No one has time or this is like,

Deborah Kane: Maybe I need a lot of it. Maybe I just need a lot of it.

Deborah Kane: no.

Anna Levesque: You know, I should just do it on my own and it is a challenge for me to ask for help and then, you know, receive that contribution. And this is something that is important when talk about like being in community or being in the eddy. Like, I think it’s also for some people like me, more challenging to ask for help and receive contribution.

Deborah Kane: you

Deborah Kane: Mm.

Anna Levesque: That it can be is my discomfort zone. And I think it’s a really good muscle to flex. It’s not really one that we always think about necessarily, but I think that it is, yeah, it’s really powerful. So I appreciate you bringing it up. It’s another reminder for me to ask for help and reach out.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, it’s a little bit funny, right? Cause you could reframe it entirely as, an act of generosity toward others. Like, I think you think at some level you’re being selfish or you’re being needy when in fact, if you’re really just giving someone else an opportunity to be amazing and to feel good about themselves for helping you. So yeah, try that reframe. Let me know how it Hold on.

Anna Levesque: Right.

Anna Levesque: Right. Totally. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thanks.

Deborah Kane: Number four, have, maybe this is your problem. No, no, it’s not your problem. Number four, it’s just have faith in yourself, right? And maybe you often find yourself in a position where you feel like you should have enough faith in yourself to do it alone and not ask for help. But so, it can be double-sided, you absolutely, you have to believe that you can do the thing you’re trying to do. Or you have to believe you probably can.

Anna Levesque: Tell me.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: And confidence is also infectious, right? And there’s that whole fake it till you make it expression. Or you know, we’re not feeling good smile or fake laugh. Like that stuff works. It actually works.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Yes, I was just coaching a client this morning about smiling, like when you’re grumpy and she, it was funny because she was saying how she really, it aggravates her that it works so well because she just won. You know, when she’s grumpy or whatever, she smiles, she’s like, then you feel better. And then you’re like, that’s so aggravating that it’s so easy and simple. Anyways, I thought that was really funny. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, right.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it’s also, it’s just like, you know, you maybe have never done the exact thing before, but you have done other things in your life that should give you some data and some information about your capacity to do this new thing, right? Like for me, you know, for rally crew, at some level, it’s a huge database, right? It’s like a database of all the paddlers in the world, a database of all the paddle sport schools, you know, online platform or connecting them.

Anna Levesque: and all of the certifications. Guess what I went through.

Deborah Kane: certification, it’s just a database. Yeah, it’s a massive database and it’s designed to facilitate connections. Well, I used to own a camper van rental company and I had a massive database of camper vans and availability and customers and I facilitated connections. I used to work for the US Department of Agriculture and I was trying to get better food into schools. So I created a whole database of all the schools in the United States.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: and all the products they needed in their cafeterias. Like I have built databases before. So that gave me, you know, enough confidence that I could probably pull off Rally Crew. Cause it’s at some level, just a big database. You know, for folks who are boaters, you’re looking at running a new rapid and you know that you have run, hopefully you know this, comparable rap rapids on other rivers. You’ve done comparable moves on other rapids. So.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: You’ve got to believe in yourself. That you have the… No, just that you have the skill.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, and I think, go ahead. Yeah. I think that like, again, I’ve so much of this is stuff that I coach and also for myself growing my confidence. Cause it is true that the reason I do what I do is because I want to remind myself, these are strategies when I’m coaching clients, it’s strategies that I use kind of like what you’re talking about in your, know, with this new vent with rally crew, like these are strategies you’re actually using.

And I, think that with the believing in yourself, you have that evidence, right? You were pointing to your jobs past, And it is, think sometimes we can forget, and if our brains, because our brains work in the past with past information, and so it can be difficult to break free of that.

Deborah Kane: Past experiences, yeah.

Deborah Kane: processes.

Anna Levesque: So if you’re past, and it’s not even past information, it’s past, it is the way we’ve wired. So what we think about most. So if we have wired our brains to be like, I’m not good at that, I haven’t done anything, then that’s what the brain goes to. And so I actually recommend, I have my clients and I do this myself. I write down, like what are 10 big accomplishments that I have accomplished?

Deborah Kane: I love that.

Anna Levesque: You know, one of the reasons why I keep like my magazine covers and stuff in the background. It’s not trying to like live in the past glory days to remind myself like, yeah, like I at one point was one of the best female paddlers in the world and I accomplished. Yeah, right. Or like my old DVDs, have them on like my first DVD. I have it on the bookshelf just to remind myself like, yes, I’ve done this because.

Deborah Kane: Damn right you were,

Anna Levesque: our brains are so good at like not remembering stuff, like looking for evidence of how we want to feel. And so I recommend everyone, like it might sound, I don’t know, like a weird thing, but to get out a journal and write this stuff down. And if you’ve run a rapid, like write down all the rapids you’ve run and yeah.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, I love that because people talk about gratitude journals, Like, you know, write down something that you’re grateful for every day. you know, you could flip that and be like, create an I’m awesome journal, right? write down something every day that you did that you’re proud of. you know, and they pile up and it’s weird, right? Because the brain, you know, I’m no scientist, don’t, this is just anecdotal, but, you know, we perseverate on the bad things.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, absolutely.

Deborah Kane: or the unsuccessful attempts, instead of bringing to the surface or highlighting all the things that we did correctly or that we achieved or that we should feel good about. I am actually, and that’s probably a good segue because strategy number five is to remind yourself that mistakes are part of the process. And it’s like, so what if you made a mistake?

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: I mean, good for you that you made a mistake because you’re on the other side of it and hopefully you learn something from it and hopefully it changed the trajectory of where you’re headed. In my case with Rally Crew, when we got the results from the survey back probably in let’s just say July of last year and so by August or September of 2024, we started the process of figuring out how to build it, how to build this platform.

And I’m not the first person in the world to think that it’d be a good idea for all the events in a subject area that you’re interested in be aggregated in one place. So I’m not the first person in the world to think it’d be cool to connect people in a social media app type way. And so there’s something, your listeners who know tech will understand the term SaaS product, but there’s a concept out there called software as service.

You know, if you have a good idea that a hundred other people have had, it’s likely that someone’s built a tool that you could just, you know, buy off the shelf and customize it to kayaking. So there was a moment when we thought, we can just, we can just take this. This other platform, it already has, you know, the basic coding and technology to connect people and aggregate events and, you know, do most of what we want to do.

And we got pretty far down the path, like two or three months of using this off the shelf product. The reason we used it was, well, it’s off the shelf. It’s kind of like plug and play. You just have to put your photos and your copy in it. And it’s relatively inexpensive if you want to get a product launched really quickly. And it was a massive mistake. We never should have done that. And it turned out that, in fact, it wasn’t going to work.

And one of the reasons why it wasn’t going to work was it would never be customizable enough.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: for what we were trying to accomplish. we really, it was great. Yeah, it was off the shelf. The event stuff worked. It was great in that way, but it wasn’t great in that we could never really make it ours. We could never really make it true to the vision of what we were trying to do with Rally Crew. And I realized that in December of 2024, and I thought I was gonna launch Rally Crew in April. And it was a…

Anna Levesque: Right.

Anna Levesque: Mm.

Deborah Kane: massive mistake to have burned all that time and investment. Exactly. And I had to have enough like, oh, you know, confidence, a that I was right that it was a mistake to walk away from it and start from scratch in January. Thank God I did. am I that was the best mistake I’ve ever made because it made me just so committed.

Anna Levesque: Hmm. And investment. Yeah, I’m sure.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, right.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: to building a tool that was responsive to the whitewater community’s needs. I knew that that SAS product I was using would never be responsive. I knew that one day, Anna, you’d have a really cool, good idea for Rally Crew. And if I was still using that other product, I would not be able to execute it. And that was unacceptable. mistakes are part of the process. They can be really big ones. It’s OK.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: One of the things I had to wrestle with, and this is as true in my personal life as it is in my rally crew life is, like your self-worth is not connected to the mistake you made or to the quote unquote bad outcome. Like I’m still a good, I made a mistake, I’m still a good person. I still have a good idea. Yeah. And I think with kayaking, with Whitewater Power Sports,

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Right. with a good idea also, yeah, you know, yeah.

Deborah Kane: You gotta swim, you you’re gonna swim if you’re gonna learn. And you’re gonna flub and you’re gonna catch an edge and you’re gonna look dumb one day. And that’s just part of process. Like you really, you gotta be okay with your mistakes.

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Well, if I, I’d love to just touch on this because what, you know, what you’re talking about is a, is a huge mistake in the sense of like time and money, energy invested. And that must’ve been felt pretty scary. I would imagine. I haven’t really talked to you about it, but it must’ve felt pretty scary. same thing. Like if you take a, sometimes those swims,

Deborah Kane: Yes. Yes.

Deborah Kane: I was.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, we’re worried about looking bad for sure, but there are times when you’re like, dang, that was scary. Like I can think about getting, I’ve gotten stuck under a rock once, like it took so long for the adrenaline to come down. And so, you know, it’s, I think that, I don’t know if you want to talk a little bit more about what it was like to really, like,

Deborah Kane: legit.

Anna Levesque: have that big of a quote unquote mistake or setback, whatever you want to talk, know, however we want to frame it and carry on.

Deborah Kane: I, yeah, that’s a great follow up question, Anna. And you were right. In that moment, it was, I just felt sick to my stomach, honestly. I felt sick to my stomach about the money I had spent that, you know, for all intents and purposes, I’ve flushed down the drain. And I was sick to my stomach over the impact that mistake had on our timeline. Because I felt like, I felt extended. I felt very vulnerable. I felt very much like I,

Anna Levesque: Right.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: had staked my reputation on an April launch. And there was now almost no way of our making it. And I think one of the things that people do that I did was I was in my head about everyone’s gonna be so disappointed. Everyone’s gonna judge me. Everyone’s going to, you know, they’re gonna give up on Rally Crew because Rally Crew is not good to its word. It didn’t launch in April like it said it was going to. And at a certain point you gotta realize like nobody is thinking about you.

Anna Levesque: Alright.

Deborah Kane: as much as you think there’s nothing about you. Nobody had written in their calendar on April 12th, rally crew is launching. When April came and went and we hadn’t launched and I was still waking up in the morning every day and the sun was still shining, that was really helpful reminder that no one but you is as wrapped up in your mistakes.

Anna Levesque: Right, totally, yes, yeah.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Right. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: And you just gotta get over that. you know, because it adds all this weight to it that is not necessary, which is why, you know, I tacked on to my lesson, like, your self-worth is not tied to the mistake. You are still awesome, whether you swam, whether, and, you know, to your point, Anna, yeah, 100%, sometimes mistakes on the river are really scary.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: But they don’t have to be the end, right? You really do gotta take a deep breath and kinda just get over it. And I’m reminded of, honestly, my kid’s kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Holman, she’s like, just this bright light of sunshine. Love that woman. And she had this little mantra for the kids when they fell down on the playground. And it was something like, what was it? It was like…

Anna Levesque: Right.

Deborah Kane: Stand up, brush it off, rub a little dirt in it. And I say that all the time to myself, you know, when I got knocked down, I’m like, all right, Debra, stand up, brush it off, rub a little dirt in it. Let’s go. You you just gotta keep going.

Anna Levesque: That’s great.

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it takes a minute. just want to say too, like it might’ve been like slowed down. Maybe you were more thoughtful. Maybe you took a minute to like re, you know, when we say like move forward, doesn’t, that doesn’t mean that you have to like immediately get back on the same river tomorrow, right?

You can like build up and all the things we’ve been talking about, having a supportive crew, believing in yourself, having the evidence that, you know, you’ve come back from mistakes before all of that.

Deborah Kane: Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Anna Levesque: It’s really good. Last thing I’ll say on this one too, what I love is that it is also okay to have a set a date and a goal with a date. It is scary and vulnerable. It is accountability. And even if it doesn’t happen, you had accomplished so much that was going to help with the platform that you all did design, right? And so, and the more that you him and Haw over like, have clients who are like, it’s, wasn’t a good day, I rolled.

And I was like, well, okay, you flipped over and rolled back up. Like we’ve got to stop in the Whitewater world, making like flipping over like a bad thing. It like, means I messed up. It’s like, great. Like, and then you practice your role and you’ve got it, yay.

Deborah Kane: Hmm. That’s a great day, actually.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, yeah.

Deborah Kane: Again, I feel like that mistake, the three months with the product that wasn’t gonna work, that was the best mistake I have ever made as it relates to Rally Crew. I exited that mistake so committed to building the most responsive to the community platform I could possibly build. And that’s gonna be at the end of the day why, if it succeeds, we don’t know yet, right? Cause I’m in my discomfort zone.

Anna Levesque: Right. Yeah, it’s great.

Deborah Kane: But if it succeeds, think it’s going to succeed because it’s responsive to what the Bowdoin community actually needs and wants. And I never could have done that before. So thank you. Mistake. And it’s a good segue into what would be strategy number six. Because you said, how did it feel when you made that mistake? And I said, it felt awful. And strategy number six is it really helps when other people believe in you.

Because at a certain point when I decided I got to walk away from this, I had to go home at some point and say to my husband at the time, hey, remember all that money we spent on that thing called Rally Crew? Well, guess what? We’re going to have to spend a whole bunch more. And I’m walking away from everything that I spent the last three months doing. And.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: My husband said to me, Deborah, this is not the first or the last time I’ll bet on you.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: And I cannot express what those words meant to me. And it really, you I’ve thought about it so much since that moment because it sometimes only takes one person to believe in you, or it sometimes only takes like the one right person. Like other people perhaps could have said that to me, but I needed to hear it from, you know, my guy.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: I needed to hear it from somebody who knew me, you know, intimately and really well and, you know, spent 35 years with me. And it was such a beautiful moment, honestly, because he was telling me that he believed in my ability to get rally crew out the door, you know, in any way necessary. But he also simultaneously was telling me that he had believed in me all along. He had had my back, you know, over all those years that we were together.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: And so if you’ve got that person in your life, you know, sometimes that’s all you need. And I remember just the way he said it, you know, Deborah, this won’t be the first or the last time I bet on you or I believe in you. You can do this. I know you can. And I turned it back and I said, well, that’s because I’m the team at WLCR. It’s not the first or the last time, you know, that my team of programmers and developers, you know, it’s not the first time I’ve worked with them.

And it’s It’s not the first time I’ve taken a chance on them or bet on them. So it really helps to have other people believe in you. You can believe in yourself and you can go it alone, but if somebody else says, I know you can do this, it really helps. in the context of paddling, sometimes, yeah, go for it. Yeah, sometimes you’ve got to hear it from somebody else.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: I have a good one for that one too.

Anna Levesque: Well, when I was in Ecuador in 1998, before I competed, I was working as a raft guide and a safety boater. And there was a kayak instructor who worked at the time for NOC, the Nantahale Outdoor Center. And he was really cute and he was an amazing boater. And I might’ve had a little crush on him. And he said to me, he’s like, Anna,

Deborah Kane: Hmm?

Anna Levesque: you’re good enough to compete. You should just compete. Like you’re good enough. Like you should go for it. Cause you knew I had been thinking about trying out for the Canadian freestyle team. And honestly, I have seen him like back in the day, like back in the early 2000s, I ran into him a couple more times. I haven’t seen him since, not in my life at all. And, but his words I’ll never forget. And it was, that gave me the confidence to be like, well if he thinks.

I’m good enough, I’m gonna do it. And that helped launch my career as a pro kayaker. So I’m always grateful for him. And he’s not in my life at all and was in my life for a very limited time. And I think that that’s important to remember too. It can be someone close to you. can also be like, also as a reminder for all of us, like how… We relate to others and you know, we all have stuff going on. We’re not always going to be our best selves. You know in conversation with others, it can be.

We can say something and never even know what an impact. That it has an and so it’s a good reason to be aware and mindful of our words and conversations and how we’re approaching conversations. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: It’s from Butterfly.

Deborah Kane: 100 % and it’s like, you the butterfly that flapped its wings. It’s like that that person said that to you it set you on this trajectory in your life and you have been that person for I am positive hundreds of toddlers thousands probably and You know all these you know the positivity and the goodness and the belief and faith and other people that we put out to the world like it comes back in spades, so

Anna Levesque: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I also, right? Yes, do it. I also want to acknowledge you and we don’t have to keep this in or we can, but I want to acknowledge you for being generous in sharing that story about your husband who you’re now getting a divorce. And I’m sure that’s a lot.

Deborah Kane: Don’t hold back, you know? If you go to someone, you tell them right now. Stop listening to this podcast and you pick up the phone. No, really.

Anna Levesque: not easy. so there’s a lot of I just want to acknowledge your generosity for acknowledging him in that way, even though he’s not that person right now for you. And I think that’s really powerful.

Deborah Kane: Hmm. Thank you, Anna. You know, I said at the beginning, right, I’m in my discomfort zone, you know, with Rally Crew, with my paddling and in my personal life. And that’s it, right? You just hit the nail on the head. I’m getting a divorce. And, you know, after 29 years of marriage, I’m getting a divorce.

And, you know, all these strategies, like we’re applying them right now to Rally Crew and we’re applying them to my paddling, but they apply to the to my personal life too, like they apply to the divorce, particularly strategy number three, which was, know, remind yourself that you don’t have to go it alone. You know, my husband, I mean, shared with me two days before our 29 year wedding anniversary that he was leaving.

And I have to say, was probably like 24, and he did, like he literally walked out the door and left.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: Probably 24 hours later, I was sending an email to every person I’d ever known in my life. Like, this just happened. And I said in the email, you know, I could really use your support. You know, I am on my knees. I have not known pain so deep. I am on my knees. And…

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: I think a lot, and what was interesting to me when I sent that note out was at least two women that I consider friends emailed me back to say they too were going through a divorce for similar reasons. And they congratulated me or they noted my bravery in putting it out there and being vulnerable and sharing what was true for me. And what was true for me was I was.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: devastated I still am honestly and but why I was so struck by the fact that there were two women in my life who were going through a similar thing and I didn’t even know it and so you know people get divorced all the time that you know this is not a new thing and and people are going through

Anna Levesque: Mm.

Anna Levesque: Right. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: Sicknesses all the time people are grieving the loss of a loved one all the time People are ashamed about something that you know mistake that they’ve made all the time We need to share that stuff with each other.

We well what I want to say, know if You know if you’re a private person, you know, like I’m an open book But you know some people, know, of course they have reasons to keep their things themselves they want to have a little privacy when they’re going through something difficult, but

Anna Levesque: Yes.

Deborah Kane: For me, I gotta be in community around this stuff. And I have to say with regard to the divorce, when I sent that email out, of course my girlfriends, it took them 30 seconds to respond. And there was a while there where I didn’t have a moment to myself, right? It was like wine country dinners, pottery classes, flower arranging. They had me out every night because I had.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: I had said in the email, know, please keep me busy. My mind needs to be occupied. You know, don’t want to, and I shouldn’t be alone because I’m, you know, I’m a danger to myself right now. And, you know, they had me out every night. And of the men.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Deborah Kane: the men in my life showed up too. And I think it really, it had me thinking about how at some level, some of this stuff about supporting each other, like it’s a little bit gendered. feel like women do it really well, or at least there’s a stereotype that we do it really well. And there’s a little bit of a stereotype that men don’t, that they don’t talk about their feelings and they don’t, you know.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: support each other through hard things, but I’ve been so struck by all the men that have showed up for me in the midst of this. So shout out to men who are in touch with their feelings. Anyway, that’s a little side track on Deborah’s divorce. Of course, and yeah, keep it in, I don’t mind. On our discussion about strategies, we only have two more left. Yeah, only two more left, exactly.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, that’s great.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, thanks for sharing. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, think we’re on, yeah, we’re on seven, I think, right? Yeah.

Deborah Kane: So strategy number seven for managing discomfort, managing when you don’t know what the outcome will be for me is, you know, try to have a moderate amount of control over the variables that will influence your success. And we covered that a lot in the last one, right? And I told the story about the, platform that I had initially built Rally Crew on, you know, I didn’t have any control over that. And I realized at a certain point, no, I’m going to need to have more control.

And the same is true for

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Deborah Kane: for paddle sports and for boating, right? Like you have some control. If you’re trying a really big new rapid for the first time and it’s at flood stage, maybe execute some agency and don’t try it that day. No one can make you do these things. Like you do have some control.

Anna Levesque: Well, yeah

Anna Levesque: Absolutely. It’s like you can’t always control what happens, but you can always control how you respond to what is happening. That’s what we have control over.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, that’s perfect. And then to wrap up Deborah’s list of the eight things to do to manage when you are in the discomfort zone. The final one for me is I just realized, know, if I am on the precipice of doing something that I’m a little bit scared about and I’m not sure if it’s going to work, but I’ve decided I’m going to do it, then at a certain point, my only option is to be all in.

Anna Levesque: Right, peel out of the Eddie. Turn and burn.

Deborah Kane: You know, I don’t like that because then the burn part, you just want to turn it over. It was. use that. I use it all the time. So yeah, so all in and I just, you you can’t, you can’t be half trying to make something work.

Anna Levesque: Come on, that was the best part of that that Creek week. Shout out to Jen Stockwell, by the way.

Anna Levesque: Right. Yeah. And sometimes it takes time. The all trying like that’s what I tell folks, you know, I think that’s one of the things that I’ve done well over the years, know, Clay, right? Was saying, you always surprise people because you keep coming up with stuff. Like he was talking in the context of this podcast. And, and I just, think consistency over time, commitment.

Deborah Kane: you gotta be all trying.

Deborah Kane: Totally.

Anna Levesque: to consistency over time. And that means times when things like we’ve talked about, you know, in this episode where things don’t go your way and then consistency over time when they are going your way, all of that creates success.

Deborah Kane: Right. embed in that all in is do the work to get there. And again, it’s so easy to relate it to paddling, but it’s just the hard moves on easy water, staying on class two for two years if you have to before you get to class three. You have to do the work to know that you have the skills necessary, oftentimes.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, yeah. Love it.

Deborah Kane: Anna is what I have for you on the concept of discomfort, a place I am in right now so deeply. So thank you for introducing me to the concept.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, you’re welcome. I hope it does. I think it’s a great concept. I appreciate how we’re gonna like you came to this episode. I love it. I love your eight strategies. Thank you for being thoughtful. That was that was fun to go through those. And I’m excited to see what happens with rally crew. I think it’s it’s super cool. And I’m super I’m really excited that there’s

Deborah Kane: Will rally crew work? I don’t know.

Deborah Kane: Of Of course.

Anna Levesque: something really innovative happening in the Whitewater space and something new. And we are niche. Like it is a small community. And like you said, like you’ve invested a lot and it, when it’s a really small community, I was telling someone else, I didn’t think I was telling, think I was telling Joe Pulliam on our, episode I did with him. Like I was listening to an outdoor industry podcast and it was for, it was,

Deborah Kane: Yeah, thank you.

Anna Levesque: they’re interviewing someone who is like a, what is that word? You’re, you’ve been in that space, a incubator for outdoor outdoor companies and the podcast, the host asks, well, do you have folks from every, every sport like climbing, skiing? Like he went through everything and did not mention paddling at all. He mentioned all the other outdoor pursuits, including like general outdoors and like,

Deborah Kane: huh. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: You

Anna Levesque: I think that that is a bit of a challenge with the industry for sure when it comes to innovation. And I’m really excited. Thank you for pouring into it. And I’m excited to see what happens.

Deborah Kane: Well, you’re so welcome. I’ve called it a passion project as long as I’ve been talking about it. That is absolutely what it is. And RallyCourts is free to join, revenue model. And part of that is, again, it’s a passion project for me. I wanted to do something to give back to the Whitewater community that I’ve gotten so much from. And for sure, it’s a niche sport. And at a certain level,

Anna Levesque: Mm. Right.

Deborah Kane: because it’s shown that, know, if anybody was going to do this, kind of had to come from within, know, wasn’t going to come from somewhere else. And I also think, you know, there’s a little bit of, sometimes there’s a benefit to being a, you know, I’m both, right? Like I’m an insider, I love paddling, I am a paddler, but I’m also an outsider and that was never my profession, right? It was just the thing that I did recreationally.

So sometimes it really helps to have a bit of an outsider’s perspective, you know, like,

Anna Levesque: Right. Yep.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: Absolutely.

Deborah Kane: I wasn’t, I’m not jaded yet. Talked to me a few years, but right now I’m

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Yes, I know exactly. Yay. No, think no. And obviously I’ve been in the industry on the sport for 30 years. So, you know, there’s again, there are it’s a wonderful community. I look forward to like being in the eddy online with everyone and seeing. Yeah. I know.

Deborah Kane: Yes, join me. Yes, we’re already friends on Rally Crew, but other people should send friend requests. I want to be friends with everybody.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, when you join Rally Crew, everyone listening, send, you can send a friend request to Deborah, connect with her, that’d be cool. Okay, I do have a…

Deborah Kane: That’s right. Yeah, I’d love it.

Anna Levesque: lightning round. Hold on just a second.

Deborah Kane: here we go.

Anna Levesque: Sorry, you’re so organized and I’m like, wait, I don’t have questions.

Deborah Kane: Hahaha!

Anna Levesque: Okay. before we get to the rapid fire, do you have any questions? Do you have a question for me, Deborah?

Deborah Kane: I do.

Deborah Kane:

Deborah Kane: My question for you, is who’s been in your crew? Like we’re talking about Rally Crew, right? It’s an online platform to help people find a crew, know, further nurture the crew they have already. And we were talking about how, you know, it’s helpful to have people who believe in you. You talked about the one person who believes in you, but you know, who’s, it’s sort of, it’s a question, sort of an opportunity for you to give a shout out to some other folks like,

Anna Levesque: Yeah.

Deborah Kane: that lift you up and keep you going? Who’s in your support crew?

Anna Levesque: yeah. Well, definitely my husband, Andrew Holcomb for sure, who is in Northern British Columbia right now with Chris Grotman’s, who’s another one. They’re trying to get on the Stikine and I’m so happy that they’re up there paddling. I don’t know if it’ll come down for them, but yeah, he’s been taking care of me with my herniated disc. So I’m really excited that he’s out there having fun. Yeah. I would say Andrew and Chris.

Deborah Kane: my god.

Deborah Kane: Yeah, it was funny.

Anna Levesque: are definitely part of my crew. I think, like I’m thinking overall crew, like I think Clay Wright also, when I think about like the 30 years of like being in paddling and people I love to paddle with, Buffy Birch is another one. And, you know, in terms of like, I, my, the MindBody Paddle community, which is an online community subscription community that is amazing, you know, folks like Kendra.

Deborah Kane: Mm-hmm.

Anna Levesque: and Stacey and Jenny and Tara. I mean, there are so many, I’m just really grateful. So many of my clients who support me and support my work. And they’re not all women to your point. Like there, have male clients who are amazing. And I just want to give a shout out to all of them. They know who they are. People with this, when I’m this injury in June, height of my season, my clients who are just like, yeah, no worries. We can reschedule next year. It’s not a big deal.

really, that is huge for me. So.

Deborah Kane: you

Deborah Kane: I get it. That’s like the team at WSGR. You got to have people in your corner, people who are going to be there no matter what. Well, it’s not the prize.

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Yeah. So, and I’m sure there’s more. Trey Rouse, shout out to Trey Rouse. I mean, there’s just so many, honestly, Deborah, thank you for presencing me to like how many, it would take me too long to acknowledge everyone. And I probably forgot someone important and I’m sorry. Yes, exactly. Aw yeah, having a career is great.

Deborah Kane: that person knows. That person knows that you love them. yeah, I love it. Right? Like just acknowledging that that we’re we’re all in hopefully, hopefully we’re all in community with people that love us and that we love that.

Anna Levesque: Yes, absolutely. And you know who else comes to mind and who I know is a Rally Crew crew, or at least a Jason is Anna Wagner also. She, you know, she, what’s that?

Deborah Kane: yeah. She’s just a sunbeam. Just a sunbeam. She’s just shining light everywhere she goes.

Anna Levesque: Sunbeam, and do you know that she was an intern for Girls Up Play back in the day for me in like the early 2000s? And yeah, just, she’s just amazing, so.

Deborah Kane: I had no idea.

Deborah Kane: Anna Wagner, shout out to Anna Wagner and shout out to Callie Kurtz. You know, so funny. The other thing that’s been affecting my paddling life frankly is the divorce. you wanna be feeling really confident, right? When you’re in your boat. I have not been at my most confident lately, but before the divorce, I had shared the goal that I wanted to get on the upper wind and…

Anna Levesque: right?

Deborah Kane: two ladies in my life made sure that happened one was Kelly Kurtz and then the second was Anna Wagner. I was Kelly took me down for my first lap and I was feeling pretty good and I mentioned it to Anna and Anna said well you know what’s more scary than your first lap. And she’s right because you’re always wondering on your first lap is that just you know that.

Anna Levesque: Yay.

Anna Levesque: Your second.

Anna Levesque: That’s so funny.

Deborah Kane: And she was like, you got to get back out there immediately in like literally like 48 hours after my first lap. And I was taking me down on my second. So and it went great. So shout out to both those ladies on my side. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: That’s awesome. Okay, I thought about one more person I have to shout out. Cindy Frost, she is like my, we joke around that she’s my PA, my personal assistant. She’s, especially for Women’s Paddle Fest, big shout out to her. okay. You opened up a big can of worms there, Debra.

Deborah Kane: That’s awesome.

Deborah Kane: That’s cool. Well, and then watch the comments. will keep posting the comments.

Anna Levesque: Right, right. Okay, are you ready for rapid fire? Okay, what’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Deborah Kane:

Deborah Kane: Coffee.

Anna Levesque: What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Deborah Kane: My workout women. I have a crew of women that I meet every Tuesday and Thursday, 6 45. We started this outdoor workout group during COVID. Five years later, we have never missed a workout.

Anna Levesque: Love it.

Anna Levesque: Awesome, wow, congrats. Sweet. Okay, what’s a favorite motivational quote, book, talk or song?

Deborah Kane: Non-naggers. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: Oh boy, you know, my bedside table right now is just like every self-help book, you know. Oh, but the one I love is there’s an author, he’s a poet, his name is Ross Gay, and he has a book called The Book of Delights. He spent a year, he was marking one of his birthdays, I think it was, but he wrote literally an essay every day about something that was delightful.

Anna Levesque: Right.

Anna Levesque: Mmm.

Anna Levesque: Wow, that sounds.

Deborah Kane: something that he was grateful for. is a delight. It is a book that everyone should have on their bedside table. Yeah, A Book of Delights by Ross Gay.

Anna Levesque: Okay. Yeah, I’m going to check it out. Thanks. Okay, what do people get wrong about you?

Deborah Kane: Well, I have a few responses to that. I feel like one of the things I’m learning is that what people think about me is kind of not in my business. So at some level, I don’t really care. Yeah, but.

Anna Levesque: Mm-hmm, that’s a good one. Yep. I love them.

Deborah Kane: You’re a friend, actually, Adrienne. She had this quote or something, something she put on social media probably at least a year, maybe two years ago, has always stuck with me and it was something like… what was it? said, was, I’m not intimidating. You’re intimidated. There is a difference. And I feel like, you know, it’s not just about me.

It’s kind of like in general, there’s a little bit of like this, this thing in the air about like dim your lights and, you know, you’re out there, you know, charging hard and doing things and I don’t like it. And that takes me back to.

Anna Levesque: Mmm. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Right, right.

Deborah Kane: I don’t really care what you think. My light’s going to shine pretty bright. I’m saying that because honestly, want your light to shine bright too. It’s not a limited quantity of bright lights that can be out there. We should all be out there being the brightest light possible.

Anna Levesque: Right.

Anna Levesque: Right, yeah.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, agree. Okay, throughout the course of your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favorite to win?

Deborah Kane: I have felt favored to win.

Anna Levesque: Okay, hard moves in easy water or flooding.

Deborah Kane: hard moves in easy water. Flooding sounds terrible, not terrible. I was on the Futa and the Ottawa recently because I’m trying to prepare for this Grand Canyon trip and big water is scary to me. yeah, big water is scary. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: Okay.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, big water is big, but it’s also so fun. Okay, what’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Deborah Kane: prepared.

Anna Levesque: freedom through discipline, or I do what I want.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, it’s a good one.

Deborah Kane: But a little more I do what I want. Yeah.

Anna Levesque: In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Anna Levesque: Awesome.

Deborah Kane: connection. I would love to be personally deeply connected to, you know, literally one person or a handful of people. It kind of doesn’t matter how many. I want to be deeply connected and I want to have fostered connections, you know, everywhere I go with other people. I want us all to feel connected.

Anna Levesque: Hmm.

Deborah Kane: to each other.

Anna Levesque: Yeah. Well, and Raleigh Crew is it’s a example of that part of that. Yeah.

Deborah Kane: That is, rally crew fundamentally is probably the most authentic expression of who I am. An authentic expression of who I am and I really hope it works.

Anna Levesque: Hmm. cool.

Anna Levesque: Me too, and probably by the time it’s launching tomorrow as we’re recording. Yeah, so this episode comes out on Tuesday. So yeah, it’ll be an exciting time.

Deborah Kane: Tomorrow.

Deborah Kane: Oh my gosh, yes. So thank you to you, Anna, for having me on the podcast. Thank you to you for being a Rally Crew advisor. Thank you to you for being my teacher. I have such fond memories of doing Creek Week with you. And thank you to your listeners. And yes, absolutely. I hope they sign up for Rally Crew.

Anna Levesque: yeah. There we go.

Anna Levesque: Mm.

Anna Levesque: Yeah, go sign up for Rally Crew and see what it’s all about y’all. It’s going to be great. You can friend me, friend Deborah when you’re in there and look forward to connecting on that platform. thank you so much for all that you’re doing, Deborah, for what you’re giving to the community, investing in the community and connections and for who you are and for taking the time to be on this show.

Deborah Kane: Keyword connecting.

Deborah Kane: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Anna Levesque: Yeah.