Anna Levesque: My guest today, Nadia Burton, has been involved in the ski industry for over 25 years, including skiing competitively out of Jackson Hole, Wyoming, cat ski guiding, and helping to run base operations for heli-ski outfits in Alaska. Nadia has been designing, sewing, and manufacturing goods since 2014, and in 2017 she started her business, WhatVest, making custom utility vests for the outdoor industry, especially the snow sports industry. She splits her time between Laramie, Wyoming, and Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Thanks for being here, Nadia. I’m excited to chat.

Nadia Burton: Thanks so much for having me, Anna. I appreciate it.

Anna Levesque: So when I say discomfort zone, what comes up for you, or what does that mean to you?

Nadia Burton: That was a very interesting question. I’ve never really been asked that, so it took me a little bit of time to figure out what I think about it. Multiple things came up for me. Obviously running my own business, there are discomfort zones in that. Competing in skiing and just being out in the mountains and on the rivers are also areas where I can get into that discomfort zone. They’re totally different, but in a lot of ways they teach you similar things about how you deal with those zones.

Anna Levesque: I’m very curious. I want to hear more about what the mountains teach you about your discomfort zone versus the rivers, because you also love to raft. I’ve been out there with you on the Gauley. Have you done some kayaking?

Nadia Burton: A little bit, yeah. That’s definitely my discomfort. I tried to learn how to scuba dive a couple of years ago and realized that that is what triggers a panic attack. I’ve never had a panic attack in my life. I couldn’t even do it in the swimming pool, and I’m a good swimmer. I’m not afraid of the water, but something about the air, and not being able to come up for air on my own terms, just totally freaked me out. So I snorkeled while they all dove, and that was fine for me.

In the mountains I’m a lot more confident, because that’s really more of my comfort zone, although I can find areas in it that are not my comfort zone. I’ve been involved in that world and doing it since I was very little, so I’m much more comfortable there. I came into the boating world later in my life. I started boating somewhere in my late twenties, and it took me years to get more and more comfortable with more serious water, working my way up to class V. I have a great partner who helps me do that, as you know. That has been helpful in getting rid of my fears of water, because I have good people around me that I trust, and I’ve come to really trust myself and feel confident that I have the skills and know what to do in certain situations out there.

Anna Levesque: What was the journey for you to trusting yourself?

Nadia Burton: A lot of mistakes. I’d say that’s the same for business as well. In the mountains, maybe you’ve chosen to trust people you’re with that you second-guessed, and later on it comes back to bite you in the ass. Or you yourself make poor decisions. I’ve made poor decisions in one thing or another.

In my younger years it was park skiing, and there were some very serious consequences when you fell. The jumps got bigger and bigger, and the competition world was very stressful and very intense, pushing yourself before you’d really had the chance to practice and get comfortable doing those things. So the injury component of park skiing was very serious and challenging for me to deal with.

Then in the world of big mountain skiing, there are major risks that I had to learn about by being out there, putting myself out there, and thankfully getting out of bad situations. I came to terms with my boundaries and became okay with that. I don’t feel that I’ve let myself down, and it’s okay not to go to that next, next, next level in skiing. I realized that I love to ski with my friends on a powder day, and I really don’t need to get so gnarly that I’m super freaked out, or I feel like I’m in danger or my partners are in danger. That’s taken years to learn and be comfortable with.

Anna Levesque: What drove you at first to keep going and pushing your limits, maybe even beyond what you should have been doing? Arguably we’re in the situations we’re meant to be in, because we learn from them. Looking back, maybe we would have made a different choice. But what drove you to keep pushing your limits and putting yourself out there, even in situations that weren’t the best in terms of risk management? I have done that too, just to say it to everyone, but I’m curious about your experience.

Nadia Burton: Sure. In my twenties, in my skiing career, it was wanting to prove to myself that I could do it, that I had the skill and the guts to do certain things. I did them when I was at the top of my athletic skiing career, and I was proud of myself that I did. Sometimes I was very scared, and I don’t know if I would go back and do it again, but I was proud that I did it.

That was more in the mountaineering world of skiing. As soon as I have to put an ice axe in my hand and crampons on my feet, and there are ropes, I’m a little out. That’s not as fun to me when it gets to that serious, mountaineering level of skiing. I’ll do some of it, but it doesn’t give me the same joy as more mellow skiing, per se. It’s still intense skiing. Skiing fast through trees and steeps, big mountain skiing, is still a challenging and scary sport, but it’s something I enjoy more.

So I learned which components of skiing I like the most. Putting myself into challenging situations still makes me proud to this day, when I can get through them and make the right decisions to navigate them. But I think I’ve left really pushing the extreme limits in my past.

Anna Levesque: When I see the stuff you’re doing, it looks extreme to me. I like open bowls and I like groomers. I know people are always so judgy about that, but I grew up ski racing, so I love being able to carve on groomers. I had a friend who was making fun of me. He said, “I’m going to get you a T-shirt that says ‘I love groomers.'” And I said, “Bring it. I’ll wear it. I’m not afraid.” But that trusting yourself, and getting to a point where you’re like, this is what I love. Like you’re saying, the joy and trusting yourself. Thanks for sharing that, because I think it’s important.

Nadia Burton: Honestly, having come to that point, I ski better now than I’ve almost ever skied in my entire life. Because I’m doing it out of such pure joy, it allows me to relax and get into my flow state so much better. Being stressed out and anxious really messed with my flow state. I think that is a wonderful thing, and I feel really lucky for it.

Anna Levesque: Absolutely. I was just thinking about this on the Gauley this weekend. I love that I get to work in kayaking, but there’s still a little bit of putting on the GoPro and getting footage because it’s good content for my business. On Sunday it was raining, and I thought, I’m not even going to put my GoPro on. It was so freeing, and I actually had better lines on Sunday than I did on Saturday. I was so relaxed and just playing around. So that really resonated, and I’m thinking about how to bring that in even when I do have my GoPro on. It reminded me that I need to give myself permission to have those days.

You run your own business too, which I want to get to in a moment, but there’s always that feeling of having to be productive and not waste any river run or any content. It’s interesting in today’s world. I don’t know if you feel that as well with your business.

Nadia Burton: Absolutely. I felt it back in my ski days, when I felt like I always needed to be out filming, always needed to have a camera on me, always needed to be producing something. We still go out a lot and get a lot of footage for the business, and it’s really refreshing to put that away sometimes and just be completely present, not fiddling around with all your gadgets.

In my business, which we’ll talk about, one thing I do is a creative project at least four times a year that’s just anything I want. Maybe it’s completely out of the box, silly, weird, with no intent of selling it. My business mind is always asking, “Well, can I sell it? Can I make money on this?” That just gets old, and I think it stifles creativity, and pushing your abilities both sewing-wise and design-wise. So it’s been a really helpful method for me. Sometimes I end up with a fabulous product that I do end up selling, but that’s not the main goal when I do it.

Anna Levesque: That’s really cool. Do you do that during your less busy seasons, or do you sometimes just run with an idea even if you’re really busy?

Nadia Burton: If I’m really busy but I have an idea I’m really excited about, I don’t care. I’ll just find the time for it. I’ll work late into the night and on the weekends. My studio space is my sacred space, and I feel like it’s a part of me, an extension of me. It’s also right across the street from my house, which is really convenient. It’s a beautiful thousand-square-foot space with lofted ceilings, and it looks out to the western mountains. It’s a very joyful place to be, so anytime I’m in there, it doesn’t feel like work for the most part.

Anna Levesque: That’s awesome. Did you curate that space on purpose to be that inspiring? It sounds amazing. Do you feel inspired every time you walk in?

Nadia Burton: Yes, I do. Oftentimes at the end of the day I leave and kind of bless it. Thank you for providing me with everything you’ve provided and allowing me to do and be in this space. It represents where I came from and where I am now, and I have all the tools at my disposal to make anything I want. It’s special to me.

Anna Levesque: Thanks for sharing that. What from the mountains and the rivers, and pushing yourself into your discomfort zone, has translated to your business? Starting a business and running a business is a lot.

Nadia Burton: That’s a great question. It’s definitely scary. Every time I get ready to go on the Gauley River, I get butterflies in my stomach. I’m legitimately scared, anxious, excited, all of those things. And when I get done with the last big rapid, Sweet’s Falls, you share that energy with everybody, that feeling of, wow, we did it again, and that was incredible. You feel even more connected to all the people around you because you did it together, which is a special thing.

You feel that way with ski partners on the mountain too. Maybe you’ve just met somebody, but you end up skiing with them for a day, and it’s like being on a multi-day river trip together. You may have only spent a week with these people, but you feel like you’ve known them your whole life. Going through those experiences, being in challenging environments, and working through those challenges together makes you stronger, makes you a better team member, and makes you feel confident about yourself.

Going into business was very daunting at first, but I was so motivated not to fail, so excited about what I was doing, and I believed in myself enough that failure wasn’t an option. Sure, I had doubters. My dad said, “You’re leaving your good job to do this crazy artist sewing thing? You’re crazy.” It didn’t take too long before he was sending me pins on Pinterest: “Have you seen this? What do you think about that?” He loves it now, and he’s so excited about it. My parents are huge supporters.

But it’s a huge step. I did the best I could to cushion myself in case something didn’t go right in the early days of my business, and that was smart. But I continuously deal with products that flopped, or didn’t sell, or lost money in all sorts of different ways, and I’ve gotten a lot more used to being okay with losing money. That’s just part of it. I think you won’t move forward until you try. And if you fail, hopefully it’s not such a big failure that you’re losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’m a small business.

I have a friend whose company is much, much bigger than mine. He started a vacuum company, and he told me he lost almost half a million dollars on it. He still has grandmas calling him about different parts and warranty things. I just laughed. I said, “Well, at least my failure is only $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 versus half a million dollars.” But it’s all relative.

Anna Levesque: It is all relative. What I’m hearing is that it’s a mindset shift, just like on the mountain or on the river. On the mountain, you have to be okay with falling. In a kayak, you have to be prepared to flip over and roll. That is so interesting. I’m thinking about this for the first time, and it’s helpful for my own mindset with my business, because I go through times that are really lean and I have to hustle more than others.

People don’t want to flip over. They’ll say, “It was a crappy day today, I flipped.” And it’s like, but you rolled. Well, even if you didn’t roll and you took a swim, that’s okay. You got to shore. You’re okay. And what do you do? You get back in your boat.

I’d never really thought of that as a metaphor for business, like losing money. I’ve had programs not book. I’ve had to borrow from my line of credit and then hustle, all of those things. It’s like flipping over and having to roll, or falling and having to get back up. Hopefully not falling in a tree well, which is what scares the crap out of me skiing trees. And also not making such a big deal about it. You’ve really got my mind going right now, Nadia, just for myself. Not letting your mind spin out, which I’ve had a tendency to do in my business, when I focus on what’s going wrong instead of what’s going well. So thank you.

Nadia Burton: I think any of us can get into that cycle of negative self-talk or getting really down on yourself. I try not to give myself enough time to get down on myself. I tell myself to pull my pants up, or what do they say? Put your big girl pants on, I guess, would be the term. I’m bad with terms. Just put your big girl pants on. No one died. Thank God no one died. You can die much more easily in the snow sports world or on the river than in business. That puts you back into reality a little bit.

Then you just have to keep moving forward, look to the next thing, and say, “Okay, I learned from that. I’m not going to do that again.” There’s no time to sit and be sad about it. Learn your lesson and move on. That’s just part of it.

Anna Levesque: Is there any advice from skiing that you’ve applied to your business?

Nadia Burton: Sure. There are a lot of metaphors that can be drawn from skiing into the business world. I have days when I’m out skiing and I’m skiing terribly, for whatever reason, and it just might not be my day. I try to be really aware of those days and tell myself, “You’d better take it easy. Real easy. Don’t push yourself.” Even though maybe it’s amazing snow out and you want to be sending it and skiing fast, there are days when I have to trust my intuition and my gut feeling that today is not the day. You’re going to hurt yourself, and hurting yourself is the biggest one when it comes to skiing.

Then be compassionate with yourself. Think of all the amazing days you’ve had. This is one day here or there that of course is not going to feel right, and that doesn’t define you. It’s the same if you make a mistake in your business. That does not define you. Most people won’t even know or care except for you. So how much do you actually want to get down on yourself over it, rather than picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and moving forward? That’s one metaphor.

I also love how skiing and boating both get you into a flow state. Another question on your prep list was about what misconceptions people have about action sports. I think it’s that we’re just out playing, which we are, because playing is so important for our happiness and our ability to work together as a team and communicate. But the focus level and the flow state you get into from skiing is like nothing else I experience in my entire life.

Occasionally I do feel that in my studio, when I’m jamming on a project that’s really fulfilling me creatively, or when I’m sitting down at a sewing machine and just jamming. I’ve got a project with a beginning and an end, and it’s very satisfying to hold something up and say, “I made this with my own hands.” It feels so great. It feels like the end of an amazing ski day, when you feel really accomplished and really proud of yourself. So those are some other translations from sport, especially action sports, to regular life.

Anna Levesque: I read the original flow state book a while ago. I can’t remember the exact title. The author said that in the studies they did, most people experienced flow state at work, because they were really focused, and not on vacation, because there wasn’t anything compelling enough to do. So the problem wasn’t that they weren’t experiencing flow state. It was that they perceived work as bad, because they didn’t have agency over it. They were being told what to do.

When you’re your own boss, I do feel like I get into flow state. I can focus for hours on projects, whether it’s this one, a program I’m designing, a blog post I’m writing, or an instructional video. And of course when I’m on the river teaching, I’m super in flow. I don’t know if you experience this, but having agency over what you’re doing is very satisfying. And then there’s experiencing that flow state, like you said, when you walk into your studio.

So there’s the part of business where, being your own boss, you have to generate revenue. No one’s just paying you. You can’t count on a regular paycheck, so there’s some stress there that we’ve already talked about. But then there’s the flow state, the agency, and the stoke. I think that’s really cool.

Nadia Burton: I love it when people can find their passion and dive into it in any way, shape, or form they can, whatever that passion might be. I just love talking to people who are so excited about what they’re doing. Obviously you see that a lot in the ski and river world. People are so excited, so energized, and so committed. It’s a lifelong commitment to those sports, and a lot of people who don’t do them can’t really understand that. It’s hard to even explain what that world is like unless you’re in it. But I do feel there are other passion-led, creative interests that can lead you to that. So I’m always encouraging people not to put their passions to the side, because there’s a potential for them to turn that into a career.

Anna Levesque: It’s interesting, because recently in the business world I’m seeing it all the time: it’s terrible business advice to follow your passion. This is coming from folks who are not in an outdoors or sports-related business, so I find it very interesting, because I’m still very grateful that I followed my passion. And it’s not just a passion for kayaking. It’s a passion for teaching, for being a contribution. That’s really my passion, making a difference, helping, advocating for women and confidence and all that good stuff. And what I hear in what you’re saying is a passion for the industry and also a passion for creativity and creating cool stuff that is also utilitarian.

Nadia Burton: Definitely. And similar to you, I have two full-time employees right now. Bringing them into the world of what I do, and seeing the excitement they have for it, and for design and creation, has been really rewarding in and of itself. That teaching aspect is a wonderful way to pass along both skill and passion to others.

Anna Levesque: Right on. What have you learned about yourself by stepping into your discomfort zone?

Nadia Burton: That’s a good question. I’ve learned that I’m okay with knowing my limits and not forcing myself to go too far outside of them. If I’m feeling good on a certain day and everything is feeling right, I will. On a ski day, for example, if I’m skiing the best I’ve skied in a while and I want to take a bigger cliff jump than I typically do, because all that energy is making me feel like, yes, this is right, this is the next step, sometimes I do it, and it’s amazing. It’s because I feel like I’m set up right for it. And then I trust my intuition when I’m not feeling all that, and I don’t feel pressured to do it at all, which is really great.

I think that was one of the main reasons I left the competition world of skiing. It was just too stressful. The rewards didn’t outweigh the risks, and it wasn’t fulfilling me the way I was hoping it would. I’m glad it put me in the direction of what I’m doing now, so I can still be highly involved in the ski industry, but on the creative and design side rather than as an athlete.

So that’s something I’ve learned from my discomfort zone, because I found myself in it in the competitive ski world. It was a very intense thing for me, and I said, “It’s not worth it.” I think I got five concussions in one season, and I thought, “What am I doing? This is not sustainable.” It was bad. Broken faces and bones, and so on.

Anna Levesque: Oh my gosh. That’s a lot.

Nadia Burton: So I realized that wasn’t how I was going to continue my ski career, and that’s okay, because it led me to where I am now, and I’m proud that I did it when I did it.

Anna Levesque: I can really relate. What’s so great about what you’re saying is that you can start out with a passion for something and then it turns into something else. It’s an evolution, and it’s about being willing to make a shift. Same thing for me. I didn’t love competing in whitewater freestyle. Granted, compared to competitive skiing, I think the injuries are a lot less. There are some. But I just didn’t like it. And to this day I have people saying, “You should come back and compete.” They’ll see me paddling freestyle on the river, and I’m like, no, I stopped doing that a long time ago, and I’m very happy. It’s great that they love competing, and they should do it.

I think sometimes it’s hard to see what other paths are available when you’re so embedded in a community or an industry, and most people are on one path. You might enjoy some aspects of it. I enjoyed the training. I enjoyed the community. I enjoyed traveling around and competing. I enjoyed doing well, and I did do well. But like you said, it was too stressful. So for folks listening, I know in my life I’ve sometimes had tunnel vision, like there’s only one way, and it’s so important to be able to expand that. Even with this podcast, I had no idea three years ago that I’d be doing a podcast. And it’s cool.

Nadia Burton: Something I’d love to add, and I think you’d agree with me on this, is that it’s just never too late. I messed around, had a million jobs, and traveled all through my twenties, and I’m so glad I did. Then it wasn’t until I was about thirty that I went back to grad school, shifted my life around, went into the creative field, and created what I do now. It’s all circled back. There’s a quote that says you’re never too young to dream and you’re never too old to make it come true.

Anna Levesque: Yes. You know what’s interesting? If I’m being honest, I have moments where I’m like, what am I doing? Why am I still doing this? I don’t want to make it sound like following your passion is always so great. Like you, I have to stop myself. I literally say, “Anna, stop. That’s not true for me. Just take a deep breath.” There’s so much still to explore and to do. And I started my podcast when I was fifty, I think. I’m fifty-two now. So it’s never too late.

Nadia Burton: You were just talking about how sometimes it’s not all fun, and sometimes you question what you’re doing. Is this the right path to be moving forward on? Are you doing enough to support yourself? But then I immediately think back to all the shitty jobs I had, like the office job where I was like a tiger in a cage. I called it my little glass cage. I thought, if this is what my future looks like, this is not okay. I cannot be in this environment. This is crushing my soul, and I will do absolutely anything to get out of here.

That was a major discomfort zone for me, and it was an incredible motivator. Maybe the biggest motivator of my life. So I’m thankful for that experience, because I realized it’s the opposite of how I want to live my life. Leaving was the best decision I ever made.

Am I stressed out from time to time? Yes. Is it really hard to manage people? Yes. Is it hard to do my taxes? Yes. Some of those things are not fun in this business, and I get really stressed out and really annoyed. But then I quickly think about that office I had for a few years of my life, which I hope never to be in again, and that makes me very thankful for everything I’m doing and makes me want to keep working hard to make this my reality. It’s not easy, but if you believe in yourself enough and you’re excited enough about what you’re doing, you’re going to do whatever it takes to make it work.

Anna Levesque: Thanks for sharing. I love that. How do you get yourself pumped up? If you’re having a meh day, is there anything you do to get yourself pumped up or get in the zone?

Nadia Burton: I’m a sucker for fashion. If I’m in my most comfortable clothes, it gives me a feeling of, I don’t know. I listen to gangster rap when I ski. So I put on some gangster rap, because I’m so gangster, and put on my favorite outfit, and it just makes me feel so good.

That’s one of the biggest compliments people give me, when they say, “I love my WhatVest so much. It’s a part of me. I feel naked if I don’t have it with me. It’s become part of my ski life, and if I don’t have it, it’s weird. It’s the best piece of ski gear I never knew I needed.” Because I do a lot of customizations, it becomes a very unique piece for them. Not a lot of people have one like it, or maybe it was literally a one-off design I made. That is so cool, because it gives people the ability to be creative and show their personality, and hopefully it gives them confidence, because that’s what it does for me. So between music and yoga and getting into my favorite clothes, that’s what helps put me in the zone. It might sound silly, but that’s it.

Anna Levesque: Thank you for sharing. I love my WhatVest as well, especially when I’m skiing. Even when I’m skiing groomers all day, I love having my snacks and my water and easy layers. It’s just great.

Nadia Burton: I love it. What about you, Anna? What do you do that helps you get into that zone?

Anna Levesque: I think about how I want to feel at the end of the day or the end of the session. I take a moment and really get into those feelings in my heart space. Whether it’s that I want to feel super stoked, I just close my eyes and imagine myself stoked, and then that feeling comes up in my heart space. Over the last couple of years I’ve really gotten into how powerful generating a feeling can be.

It’s about shifting it. So even if I’m meh, especially when I’m meh or feeling down, I have a simple symbol that’s associated with feeling good and having a real love of life, joy for life. I bring that symbol to mind and let that joy for life, or stoke, or whatever it is I want to feel, come up. Sometimes it’s ease. Sometimes it’s that I want to be delightfully surprised. That helps me shift and get pumped up.

Getting too pumped up actually gives me anxiety. People sometimes think I’m quiet. When I’m teaching and supporting people, I’m enthusiastic. But for myself, if I’m above a big rapid, I just like to focus, breathe, and be present. I’m more subtle.

Nadia Burton: I love that. I would call that being in the zone as well, and being very present with your surroundings, the sounds and the feel of it. I’m that way with skiing. I actually don’t listen to music really loud. I like to be very present when I’m skiing, to get prepared for it, and occasionally while I’m skiing. So I can relate to that, just being focused and peaceful and thinking about what you’ve got ahead of you. I think that’s a great way to do it.

Anna Levesque: Recently I’ve challenged myself not to take myself as seriously and to bring a little more joy. So with my clients now, before the river, depending on the group or the person if it’s private instruction, I’ll put on some dancey music and we have a little dance party. It helps loosen everything up. It’s typically poppy music, like the Cha Cha Slide or something super cringey and silly. And the group gets into it. I’ve had other groups looking over saying, “Can we join you?” It’s a good reminder that when we bring joy, even if it feels awkward or embarrassing, it spreads.

Nadia Burton: It does. And I love the not taking yourself too seriously. I have to remind myself of that a lot, because I’m a very rational, logical, kind of serious person at times. I also have a side of me that’s very fun and silly, and I love tapping into that. The more I can tap into it, the better. My husband would probably agree.

Sometimes I sit there and think, I’m sick of telling people what to do. I’m sick of being in charge all the time, and I’m sick of being the one who has to make all the decisions. I just want to not be the one in charge. I’ll be in charge of myself, but I don’t want to have to be the leader all the time. That can be a lot. So it’s a good thing to remind yourself to let go.

Anna Levesque: For sure. Let go and have some fun. And thanks for that question, by the way. I appreciate you asking me. Okay, are you ready for rapid fire? This first one isn’t on the form, and it’s taken a few people by surprise, so you can answer it or not. What is your favorite river metaphor?

Nadia Burton: Oh boy. My favorite river metaphor is eddying out. I use “eddy out” all the time. It’s my favorite. My employees have no idea what I’m talking about. I’m like, “Don’t get eddied out on that.”

Anna Levesque: That’s awesome. Time to peel out. What’s a morning ritual that sets you up for success?

Nadia Burton: I typically do some yoga in the morning. My grandmothers used to say, “You’ve got to stretch every day,” and they lived into their nineties and were very spunky and full of energy. I’m blessed to have women in my life who have been strong and healthy their whole lives, so it’s important to me to keep moving. I’m a constant mover, and that keeps me strong and energetic. So, yoga.

Anna Levesque: Right on. What’s a non-negotiable self-care practice?

Nadia Burton: Skiing.

Anna Levesque: What motivates you these days?

Nadia Burton: Snow, creativity, and designing. I’ve been making a lot of my own clothes.

Anna Levesque: That’s cool. I look forward to seeing that when I see you at Gauley. What do people get wrong about you?

Nadia Burton: I think people think I’m really tough, which I am, but I’m actually a total softie. I can’t really watch aggressive, violent movies or shows. I have really vivid dreams, and I’ll dream about it. I don’t like guns. I don’t like death and chilling stuff like that. I’m romance novels and rom-coms all day.

Anna Levesque: Right on. Throughout the course of your life, have you felt like the underdog or the favored to win?

Nadia Burton: Both, at times.

Anna Levesque: Hard moves in easy water or flooding? That’s like groomers versus tree skiing, maybe.

Nadia Burton: I’d go with hard moves in easy water.

Anna Levesque: It gets you feeling comfortable for the flooding. What’s one word that describes your comfort zone?

Nadia Burton: Again, I’m so typical: powder skiing. It’s one of the most comfortable and amazing feelings I’ve ever felt in my life. Anybody who has felt it would probably agree that there’s nothing quite like chasing the fluffy powder.

Anna Levesque: It is sweet. Freedom through discipline, or I do what I want?

Nadia Burton: Both. I do what I want, but I have to have some discipline or I wouldn’t be in business.

Anna Levesque: Totally. In one word, what do you hope your legacy will be?

Nadia Burton: Passion.

Anna Levesque: We’ve talked about that a lot today, which is cool. Are y’all still making throw bags?

Nadia Burton: We are. We have about a dozen that we’ll bring out, in all sorts of beautiful colors.

Anna Levesque: I love that about your throw bags. What’s the brand of your throw bags?

Nadia Burton: That’s my Big Hollow brand. Big Hollow is my overarching LLC, and I put Big Hollow on all my clothing and river gear. I also made a whole bunch of paddle cover bags. I should bring those out as well. They’re for stand-up paddleboard paddles, but we also made a handful for raft paddles.

Anna Levesque: Right on. I love my Big Hollow throw bag. It’s very pretty.

Nadia Burton: Great, we’ll bring them out. We’ll be out there Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then again the following week, so the first two weeks of October. I’m so excited to see you and Andrew and the whole crew.

Anna Levesque: I’m excited too. I love my WhatVest and I love my Big Hollow throw bag, so folks listening, check them out. What’s your website, Nadia?

Nadia Burton: You can go to whatvest.com, that’s “what” and the word “vest,” or bighollowdesigns.com. They both go to the same website.

Anna Levesque: Is there anything else you want to say that you didn’t get to say?

Nadia Burton: I don’t think so. That was awesome. We had a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me.

Anna Levesque: Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate you. Someday I’d love to ski with you. We’ll make it happen.

Nadia Burton: Let’s go back to Canada. Let’s meet up in Fernie.

Anna Levesque: Fernie. We love Fernie.